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1856 Pacific Express Company sign

 
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1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 3:14:08 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		Well I found this doing my thang this summer. Turns out they were only in busines for 2 years 1855-1857. They were started by a defunct group of expediters and after 2 years bought out by Wells Fargo. Here is there Money Order sign for the Depot station. I was told in great shape this would bringg 800 or more. However not in perfect shape but still good for around 160 years old and been in the river.




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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 3:15:39 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		The holes have some Iron deposit from corrosion but I can still hang it with spacers and 2 lag bolts like intended.

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 3:18:00 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		Some more unexpected discoveries.




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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 3:48:26 PM   
Bixel

 

Posts: 724
Joined: 8/30/2004
From: Strathroy, Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		I hate to be the bearer of bad new, nor come off as a **** but that sign does not look to be 1856-1858.

Upon doing a quick search, I found this, dated 1911:


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60816FF3E5517738DDDA90B94DF405B818DF1D3


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Collector of Insulators, Ontario marked bottles, railway memorabilia and signs of all sorts

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 4:25:56 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		No worries on the bearer of bad news. I sent photos to a Wells Fargo Collector and an appraiser. Neither indicated exact age but I also have 2 more links that put and 1895 date and 1872 date for their operation. ALSO their may have been 2 or 3 under the name?????IDK but here is another link Ive read and contacted the caretaker.

http://www.westerncoversociety.com/library/expresses/expresses_32.htm

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 5:07:38 PM   
L C

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 3/17/2007
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Regardless of age , its a nice vintage flange sign . Definitely a keeper . I am wondering when money orders first became available .

< Message edited by L C -- 11/10/2011 5:10:21 PM >

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 5:16:37 PM   
surfaceone


Posts: 7048
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline 		Hey Louis,

Good question.

"
The money order system was invented by a private English company in the first half of the eighteenth century. The idea, however, did not get good hold and was abandoned about a century later. While the first money order service was expensive, in 1836, it was sold to another company that lowered the fees. This policy line increased the popularity of the service while still making the product reasonable profitable. Noting the profitability and success of the system, the Post Office took over it in 1838. The further reduction of fees made the system increasingly popular. Luckily, at that time it was transplanted in Continental Europe, India, and the United States and since then, it has become one of the most popular methods for transferring money around the globe." From
http://www.financialdictionary.net/define/Money+Order/

From http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2010/02/now-thats-price-inflation.html with some different dates...

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 5:26:18 PM   
L C

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 3/17/2007
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Good evening Surf , out of curiousity , I went to good old Google and tried a search concerning the history of money orders . I found that the money order system was established by a private firm in Great Britain in 1792 , and most else what I found is pretty much the same as what you came up with . Did not help too much in the attempt to try and date the sign .

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Post #: 8
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 6:03:59 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		No but the 1830s being used in America does put money orders in the 1850 and 1890s. So it at least eliminates an eliminator LOL

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Post #: 9
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 6:05:14 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		Actually now I will try to see when the depot was built.

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Post #: 10
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 6:16:06 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		OK I thought I figured it was later because RR didnt hit town til 1880 BUT the post office was established in town in 1837.

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Post #: 11
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:00:13 PM   
surfaceone


Posts: 7048
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline 		Hey Dave,

It is a great sign, and I'm sure pretty darn rare, but I would be flabbergasted if it dated much before 1890. The graphics are too TOC to my eyes. I did a double take when I first saw it and the dates you cited.

"In the U.S., most outdoor signs made between 1890 and and 1950 were constructed of a base of heavy rolled iron, which was die cut into the desired shape, then coated with layers of colored powdered glass and fired in a kiln. This process made them durable and weather-resistant. Signs made this way were known as porcelain enamel signs or simply enamel signs.

Porcelain enamel signs originated in Germany and were imported into the U.S. They quickly became a staple of outdoor advertising across the country. Around 1900, designers experimented with bold colors and graphics on the signs and they were used to advertise everything from cigarettes and beer to farm equipment and tires. Early designs were stenciled, but American designers switched to silkscreens and started using a steel base instead of iron. Later, when porcelain enamel became too costly, tin bases were used instead of steel..." From.


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Post #: 12
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:10:46 PM   
madman


Posts: 10350
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: historyhunter

Some more unexpected discoveries.




nice sign! but im more interested in the skulls and horn prehistoric mammals?

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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:42:52 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		Agreed but the quote you have also says earlier were iron as they move to silkscreen they switched to steel. This is iron so it is silkscreened and iron. Id say later to but Im just trying to nail it down. The companmies existance years should be enough but the info is contradictory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: surfaceone

Hey Dave,

It is a great sign, and I'm sure pretty darn rare, but I would be flabbergasted if it dated much before 1890. The graphics are too TOC to my eyes. I did a double take when I first saw it and the dates you cited.

"In the U.S., most outdoor signs made between 1890 and and 1950 were constructed of a base of heavy rolled iron, which was die cut into the desired shape, then coated with layers of colored powdered glass and fired in a kiln. This process made them durable and weather-resistant. Signs made this way were known as porcelain enamel signs or simply enamel signs.

Porcelain enamel signs originated in Germany and were imported into the U.S. They quickly became a staple of outdoor advertising across the country. Around 1900, designers experimented with bold colors and graphics on the signs and they were used to advertise everything from cigarettes and beer to farm equipment and tires. Early designs were stenciled, but American designers switched to silkscreens and started using a steel base instead of iron. Later, when porcelain enamel became too costly, tin bases were used instead of steel..." From.





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I am a riverdawg thats where me finds my treasure.

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Post #: 14
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:46:26 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		madman that horn I think its a 1850ish bull horn. Its cut by saw from what I think was a market dump. I also have a large blackened femur of something too. Last weekend I found another smaller vermin skull. The large snapper was a very cool find. Shell was gone. I

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I am a riverdawg thats where me finds my treasure.

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Post #: 15
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:48:31 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		Looking into things before I saw an American Express sign close in likeness to mine flanged and it was 1858 I believe.

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Post #: 16
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 9:52:42 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		This is an 1860 sign.





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RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 11:24:00 PM   
surfaceone


Posts: 7048
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: historyhunter

This is an 1860 sign.






Hey Dave,

I don't think it is, despite the "1860-430" marking. "Made in USA" was not a widely used phrase in 1860. I don't believe American Express was operating much outside of New York City in 1860.

"In 1882, American Express started its expansion in the area of financial services by launching a money order business to compete with the United States Post Office's money orders." From.

Have a look HERE, for a date approximation on that sign.







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Post #: 18
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 11:36:24 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		There you go. Definately later on this sign. Heres another AMErican Express history article in deeper detail. No mention Of PAcific Express

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/American-Express-company-company-History.html

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Post #: 19
RE: 1856 Pacific Express Company sign - 11/10/2011 11:50:31 PM   
historyhunter

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline
quote:

In October 1869 William Fargo, his brother Charles, and Ashbel Barney traveled to Omaha, Nebraska, to confer with Tevis and his associates. There Wells Fargo agreed to buy the Pacific Express Company at a much-inflated price and received exclusive express rights for ten years on the Central Pacific Railroad and a much needed infusion of capital.


lol this one says by 1869 there was no P EX Co

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