If you are just visiting and found the information you were looking for please contribute to the running costs by making a donation.	Forums : : Register : : Log In : : Log Out : : Help : : Calendar : : Search
	My Setup : : Member List : : Contact Admin : : Today's Posts

All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> AB bottle questions

Page: [1]

Login Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>

AB bottle questions - 4/21/2004 7:03:43 PM    NevadaMuseum   Posts: 1 Joined: 4/21/2004 Status: offline My Grandpa owns a museum and we are now working on the bottle section. We know these AB bottles are pretty common, so we thought someone on here may have some answers for us. We have read in a couple different books that the AB trademark wasn't registered until 1904, but we think these bottles were made before then. Does anyone know if Anhauser-Busch was using this trademark before the 1900's??We also wondered if anyone had a guestimate on the value of these two bottles. They are in great shape. They are pretty full of bubbles though. I have read that the pints are pretty rare because they weren't made very long after the quart was put ont he market, is that true of these particular bottles too? Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: AB bottle questions - 4/22/2004 12:27:31 AM    Harry Pristis   Posts: 495 Joined: 7/24/2003 From: Northcentral Florida Status: offline This has been discussed in an earlier thread. Try doing a search for "Adolphus Busch." I don't think that the AB on your bottles represents an Anheuser-Busch trademark. Adolphus Busch registered a trademark in 1877 which is an A with an Eagle. Busch started out making bottles for local breweries. Some of those bottles are base-embossed ABGCo for Adolphus Busch Glass Company. Eventually, he bought his own brewery. I believe the AB represents Adolphus Busch. Perhaps a collector of breweriana will correct me. Or, you might do an Internet search for "Adolphus Busch". -----------------Harry Pristis _____________________________ ______________________________________________ Visit The Demijohn Page at: http://members.aol.com/pristis/index.html (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 2

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/12/2004 11:02:11 AM    jchristensen   Posts: 4 Joined: 5/12/2004 Status: offline The "AB" mark has been misidentified as having been used by Adolphus Busch, an error that has been carried over from Toulouse's book bottle makers and their marks(1971). Don't get me wrong, it's still the best book out there...if you can find a copy. It has since been brought to our attention by several more recent maker's mark freaks that the "AB" was used by all of the plants of the American Bottle Company from 1905 until 1917, when the Owens Bottle Company bought American. Two former American plants continued to use the mark until 1929 before all Owens holdings were consolidated in the Owens-Illinois merger. The two oddball plants were in Streator and Newark, and as a result any "AB" bottle with the "N" or "S" could date from 1905 through 1929. The bottle in the jpg. photo has the Chicago "C", and as such it most probably dates from 1905 through 1917. It's a small difference in dates, but it makes a big difference in understanding company histories. Hope this helps. (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 3

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/12/2004 8:21:37 PM    Harry Pristis   Posts: 495 Joined: 7/24/2003 From: Northcentral Florida Status: offline Thanks for the insight, jchristensen. It is quite possible that some hand-finished "AB" bottles are later than is commonly assumed. That is, if production of beer bottles paralleled the production of pop bottles. According to the Paul-Parmalee book, SOFT DRINK BOTTLING: A History with Special Reference to Illinois, In actual use the automatic bottling machine was not operational for the production of pop bottles for some time, and it was not until about 1915 that most bottles were so manufactured. . . . The American Bottling Company plant (Streator, Ill.) experimented with the semi-automatic [bottle-making] machines in 1900 and added 12 of the Owens automatic machines in 1906. However, they continued for some years with their hand-blown operations. In 1908 several additional machines were added to their lower works. But these still did not displace the last of the hand-blown bottles. All of these bottles, hand-finished and machine-finished, beer or pop, are crown-top bottles, I believe. Soooo.... From this, it appears that a hand-finished AB beer is likely to date to a period of 1905 to about 1915. Do you concur? ------------------Harry Pristis _____________________________ ______________________________________________ Visit The Demijohn Page at: http://members.aol.com/pristis/index.html (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 4

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/13/2004 10:11:12 AM    jchristensen   Posts: 4 Joined: 5/12/2004 Status: offline Yeah, that sounds pretty good for most examples, but apparently it depends. Toulouse (1971:30-33) got the company history for American down pretty tight, but misattributed the "AB" mark. In his history he indicates that American went through a gradual transition toward automation. He hints that the rate of this transition differed from plant-to-plant. The 1906 Directory for the Streator plant listed 23 continuous tanks, 238 rings, and only a few semi-automatic machines. By 1912, 12 tanks fed Owens machines and 15 fed hand-blowing. By 1915, 12 tanks fed hand-blowing and 17 fed Owens machines. About the best indicator for dating these "AB" bottles is the plant/year code located at about 7 o'clock and 5 o'clock on the base. Toulouse (1971:30) attributes this specific code format to the "ABCo" mark, but it is the same that we see on "AB" bottles. It appears that each plant used their first letter initial at 7:00 and the year at 5:00. So, Kristin's bottle seems to be a Chicago, 1908 example. An earlier post had a Massillon, Ohio, 1905 and a couple from a plant that started with the letter "K". I do not know who "K" was. There were no "K" letter plants in the American family, or in the Owens-Illinois family. Interesting-to-me parting shot on the "AB" controversy. Adolphus Busch Glass Manufacturing Company of Belleville, Illinois was purchaced with the Streator Bottle and Glass Co. and the four plants of the Ohio Bottle Company to form the American Bottle Co. in 1905 (Toulouse 1971:31). So, at least in lineage, the Adolphus Busch connection with the "AB" mark is present. Is it possible, I wonder, that the "AB" mark might have been purchased by American as a part of the deal? Additionally, Busch did withdraw his St. Louis operations from the merger and operated them independently until 1928. I'm comfortable attributing AB bottles to American from 1905-1916, with Strator plant and Newark plant examples up to 1929...but am wondering if there's not a piece to this puzzle I am missing. (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 5

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/13/2004 11:03:49 AM    O.T. digger   Posts: 125 Joined: 3/23/2004 From: KINGFISHER OKLAHOMA Status: offline my friend dug up to AB's one said FEHR's on the front (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 6

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/13/2004 12:35:22 PM    jchristensen   Posts: 4 Joined: 5/12/2004 Status: offline I think that's Fehr's Brewery, Kentucky. But I doubt that'd explain the "K" plant question...that's some city code... (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 7

RE: AB bottle questions - 5/13/2004 3:50:13 PM    maineahh62   Posts: 108 Joined: 3/13/2004 From: Maine Status: offline hello jchristensen, i found this piece of info from ask digger's sight, The AB mark was used between 1904 and 1907 on Adolphus Busch bottles. Digger just curious if this would relate. _____________________________ Timothy McKinnon (in reply to jchristensen) Post #: 8

"AB" bottle is probably not Ad. Busch - 5/13/2004 8:30:30 PM    jchristensen   Posts: 4 Joined: 5/12/2004 Status: offline Thanks for your kind reply, maineahh. Based on what I gather from a few newer sources (the only one online I can cite offhand is http://myinsulators.com/glass-factories/bottlemarks2.html, and I know that there's been a recent publication on this topic in the monthly Society for Historical Archaeology pub. that just came out), the "AB" bottle has been misattributed to Busch since Toulouse's 1971 book (pls. see the earlier posts for details). I'd imagine digger rightly relied heavily on Toulouse for dates, I have not heard anyone argue that it's not the best reference out there. The plant/date code on the bottles pretty much confirms this. With the exception of "K", all of the letters documented for "AB" match up with American Bottle Co. plants. Also, the dates go well past the cited termination date for Busch. The bottle mark listing at myinsulators.com references specific bottles up into the 1920s. What does apply is that Busch is in the ABCo. lineage...and splintered one of the plants back into independent production right before the Owens buy-out. This makes me wonder. I'm gonna work to find any evidence of Busch perhaps using this mark prior to the formation of ABCo., but am interested if there's anyone out there with any knowledge of the transition between the two that might help out in my research. Also very interested in a city-named ABCo. plant that might start with the letter "K". Any ideas? (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 9

RE: AB bottle questions - 7/29/2005 12:31:10 AM    obrimark   Posts: 1 Joined: 7/29/2005 Status: offline I'm resurrecting this thread from over a year ago. I have seen the base of a glass bottle whose makers mark reads: B C A B CO E 8 I must admit that this is just from memory and my somewhat cluttered notes. I don't actually have the specimen in question. What does the "B C" stand for? What about the "E 8"? The American Bottle Co didn't have a plant in a city that began with the letter "E" as far as I know. Does the "8" mean 1908? Any insights anyone could provide would be appreciated. (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 10

RE: AB bottle questions - 7/29/2005 12:37:25 PM    stefan   Posts: 29 Joined: 5/6/2003 Status: offline Hello all: I have an AB clear bottle, and on the base it says U at 7 o'clock and 15 at 5 o'clock. I assume 1915, but what is the U? (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 11

RE: AB bottle questions - 7/29/2005 1:16:08 PM    TexasTrav   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/29/2005 Status: offline My Father in law (TexasDave) and I have found many AB bottles and also quite a few ABG Co, the AB bottles usually have nice aqua color with many bubbles. When comparing the these two different bottle makers the ABG CO bottles are noticably older than the AB (American Bottle Co.). (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 12

RE: AB bottle questions - 8/3/2005 5:59:24 PM    TexasTrav   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/29/2005 Status: offline You all probably know this, but here is a cool site for markings on bottles. http://myinsulators.com/glass-factories/bottlemarks.html (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 13

RE: AB bottle questions - 8/6/2005 10:43:03 PM    David E Posts: 995 Joined: 5/24/2004 Status: offline Don't know if this will help but some notes I took from Toulouse are The B on top of the A's right side 1904 to 1907 Adolphus Bush ABGM Co 1886 to 1928 Semicircle and straight line Adolphus Busch ABCo 1910 to 1916 American bottle, straight line across bottom N17 N18 Newark Ohio S17 S18 Streator Ill Streater and Newark marks were dated begining in 1917 Dave < Message edited by David E -- 8/6/2005 10:47:57 PM > (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 14

RE: AB bottle questions - 9/3/2005 10:57:08 AM    Sara...   Posts: 1 Joined: 9/3/2005 Status: offline when i was a kid i accidentally stumbled upon a bottle dump in the woods back of our house. this was in 1970 in buffalo, iowa. among other bottles i found four that say ab co on the bottom and are embossed "independent brewing & malting co davenport, iowa" . they had porcelian stoppers and i believe the date on the underside of the stoppers was 1877 - the stoppers have since been lost. anyway i am wondering if anyone else has one. they are quart ambers, and i also wonder about the company that made them. (in reply to NevadaMuseum) Post #: 15

All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> AB bottle questions

Page: [1]

New Messages No New Messages Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread  Reply to Message  Post New Poll  Submit Vote  Delete My Own Post  Delete My Own Thread  Rate Posts