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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP!

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BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 1:32:01 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline My father found this bottle in an old barn in rural California in the early 1960's. It looked then the same as it does now: Black. To me it looks like an old maple syrup bottle, but I could be wrong. I broke it about 30 years ago and glued the pieces back, which still hold. Could someone please tell me more about it and if it is worth anything? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Thanks, Susan Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 1:50:57 PM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline Hi Susan... Welcome to the forum! It's a scroll whiskey flask... Not sure of the McKearin number... Most seem to have been pontiled, dating them to around the mid 19th century, or possibly earlier... Can you give us a photo of the base? Had it not been broken, it could have been worth some money... Nice flask! Ron (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 2

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 2:31:55 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Wow, Ron: Thanks for the quick reply. Here's a photo of the base. Does it still have value? I think it is repairable because there are no missing pieces. I can send you a close up of the crack, if it's worth the effort. Best regards, Susan Attachment (1) _____________________________ Susan Johnson (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 3

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 2:44:44 PM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline It looks to me to be an iron pontil... If you can get a picture of the damage, that'd be great... As to monetary value, that would depend: If the particular piece is highly sought after and the damage is minimal, your bottle would still be saleable... As far as repair goes, you have probably already done what could be done... Ron (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 4

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 4:21:51 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Hi Ron: You are so nice. Thank you for all the help. Here's a photo of the crack (front and back). It looks like I broke the neck off. The yellow stuff in the crack is wax. I guess I was using it as a candle holder. Shame on me. Where on the web would you suggest I try to sell it? I ran a search on Ebay and nothing under "scroll whiskey flask" showed up as a comparison. I did find them on www.absenteeauctions.com, but I don't know anything about that site, do you? Again thanks, Ron. Susan Attachment (1) (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 5

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 4:44:35 PM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline Susan... There are actually 6 items currently on ebay... Go to collectibles>bottles & insulators>bottles>antique(pre-1900) Type in the search box: scroll flask You might want to get an expert appraisal and professional repair before you try to sell it... Ron (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 6

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 4:56:18 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Hi Ron: Do you really think I should get it repaired and appraised? Is it that old and valuable? Any suggestions on who to repair it and/or appraise it? I can't believe I found you... Susan _____________________________ Susan Johnson (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 7

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/5/2005 6:32:08 PM    BRIAN S.   Posts: 1471 Joined: 5/27/2003 From: The Mountains of Tennessee Status: online Hi Susan , It's hard to determine what mold variant your scroll flask is from your pics . They made a lot of different variants. Does it have any markings ( words ) embossed on it ? And if you look thru it at a bright light or the sun.....is it a dense Olive Green or dense Red Amber ? Or what color ? And can you tell if it is a Quart or pint size ? Is the neck the only place you broke it ? Could have been a costly break, because it is a scarce coloration . These flask are most comonly seen in Aqua....But because it is such a dense color it could be repaired fairly easily and would have some monetary value for display purposes. But professional repairs are costly. Brian _____________________________ Tennessee Hillbilly Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! Always looking to buy or trade for Drake's Plantation Bitters and Drake's go-withs . And Tennessee Bottles and Jugs ! (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 8

RE: BLACKENED:ATTN: LobeyCat!!! - 4/6/2005 4:42:17 AM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline Rich... It's right here!!! (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 9

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 7:36:54 AM    kastoo   Posts: 1278 Joined: 9/7/2004 From: Lagrange, GA Status: offline Cool...many diggers hope to find these...you always could put it on Ebay if you want to sell it and see what shakes...not sure but think the good ones start at 300 bucks...I never saw one that dark of course I'm no expert. (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 10

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 11:26:27 AM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Dear Ron, Brian, bearswede, kastoo, et al. Since I joined your forum yesterday and got such great response, I did a little research too. My impression is they made black bottles back then to protect the whiskey from the light. It is as black as black can be. No other color. All these years I thought it was black from radiation. Maybe I was wrong. It's a pint size. When my dad found it, it must have been lying on the ground. He never would have gone digging for it. That's why we thought the sun turned it black. I'm in California. Are there any reputable repair people out here (or anywhere I guess) from whom I could get an estimate? You guys are a real treasure. I appreciate all the interest and great information. Best regards, Susan (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 11

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 11:30:03 AM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline To Brian: Me again. There is no lettering. Just a very distinct pattern. Other than my horrible accident, the bottle has very little wear or grinding down of the pattern. The pontil is very sharp and distinct. Susan _____________________________ Susan Johnson (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 12

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 3:48:18 PM    BRIAN S.   Posts: 1471 Joined: 5/27/2003 From: The Mountains of Tennessee Status: online Hi again Susan , There are like 40 + different mold variants in the Scroll flasks . But by it being a pint ....that has narrowed it down . Some mold variants had Louisville , KY. , J.R. & Son , Rough & Ready , ect. ....that's why I asked if it had any lettering. The Woman that I knew that did repairs has just disapeared from the bottle world . She would on average get 100.00 for a repair .... and she was the best that I had ever seen. I don't know of anyone else that repairs....But some of the other forum members may know of someone. The color has me a little stumped. It doesn't pass light at all ? Do you think it may have been treated with something that stained or painted the glass on the inside ? I know this will sound funny .... But take the flask and hold it to your cheek. Does it feel cold ? And also , you mentioned that the pontil was sharp ..... in your pic it looks like a iron pontil ???? Brian < Message edited by BRIAN S. -- 4/6/2005 4:01:41 PM > _____________________________ Tennessee Hillbilly Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! Always looking to buy or trade for Drake's Plantation Bitters and Drake's go-withs . And Tennessee Bottles and Jugs ! (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 13

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 4:40:03 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Hi Brian: I'll do all the tests you suggest tonight and get back to you in the morning. I'm at my office today. I'll also go over it with a big magnifying glass I have to see if there's something I can't see with my old eyes. Until tomorrow... Susan (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 14

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 4:48:56 PM    medbottle   Posts: 112 Joined: 7/13/2004 Status: offline Hello s3iinc. Looking at the area of the break, your bottle appears to be a dark olive green in color. Is that glue I'm seeing, or is light getting under the edge of the break to give us a hint of the color? (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 15

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 4:54:24 PM    BRIAN S.   Posts: 1471 Joined: 5/27/2003 From: The Mountains of Tennessee Status: online Susan , I enhanced your photo and I'm also picking up an Olive green . Susan , Why I asked you to hold it to your cheek .... is that usually artificially colored (stain,paint,dye,ect. )bottles feel more like room temp. or warm and a normal unenhanced bottle will feel cold to the touch of your cheek. But after enhancing your photo..... I believe its color has not been enhanced or altered. It looks to be a deep dense Olive green. A very diserable color in a scroll. But , after enhancing the photo of the lip/neck photo.....it looks to be broken/cracked in several different places....hurting the value substantially. Brian Attachment (1) < Message edited by BRIAN S. -- 4/6/2005 5:17:51 PM > _____________________________ Tennessee Hillbilly Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! Always looking to buy or trade for Drake's Plantation Bitters and Drake's go-withs . And Tennessee Bottles and Jugs ! (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 16

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 5:01:58 PM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline Hey Med... I think Susan said it was wax... Where's LobeyCat? He's supposed to be here helping us out... (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 17

RE: BLACKENED:ATTN: LobeyCat!!! - 4/6/2005 5:04:36 PM    bearswede Posts: 2910 Joined: 9/28/2004 From: western mass Status: offline RICHARD... You come here this instant!!! (in reply to bearswede) Post #: 18

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 5:08:52 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Hi Medbottle: I'm going to give it a big once over under some bright lights tonight to see if there is some other color other than black. The hint of color near the break is either the china glue I used or some candle wax. Awful me, I was using it as a candleholder when I broke it. I wasn't too smart back in my twenties, some 30+ years ago. I'll report back tomorrow. I did read an article about how glass turns black at the atomic level when exposed to radiation. (http://www.chem.colostate.edu/~glass/irradiation.html The only radiation this thing could have been exposed to was the sun, unless it traveled from a Nevada test site in its lifetime. Would the sun have been enough over a long period of time? Thanks to everyone for all the great information and response. This is my first internet forum! You're all terrific! Regards, Susan (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 19

RE: BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP! - 4/6/2005 6:34:06 PM    s3iinc   Posts: 16 Joined: 4/5/2005 Status: offline Brian: The color you see is glare under a neon light. But I'm going to try to see green tonight or tomorrow in the sunlight. Yes, I think I cracked the neck off in 2-3 big chunks. I would like to get it professionally repaired because all the pieces are there if it will restore some of the value. As old as it must be, it is worth restoring to me just because I have had it for over 40 years. I'm still waiting to hear from you guys on a trusted restorer. Too bad that Woman you mentioned disappeared. Under the conditions where my dad found it, in an old barn out in the middle of no where, it's hard to believe someone tampered with it. Though who knows. Regards, Susan (in reply to s3iinc) Post #: 20

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