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EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL)

 
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EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 2:14:42 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		Howdy ~

I haven't been around lately - been busy with a variety of things, including catagorizing and photographing my extensive collection of approximately 500 Southwest related items. Just the postcards alone took me almost a week.

Anyway, the following is something I have been wanting to do for some time now, and thought it might be interesting and fun to invite others to participate. What I would like to do is find as many of the earliest Owens-Illinois bottle marks as we can find - and the brands that used them.

As most of us know by now, the Owens-Illinois merger was officially approved on April 17, 1929. However, even though there are claims of the mark being used as early as April 20, 1929, there still appears to be come controversy surrounding this early of use. The <(I)> mark itself was not officially registered (#269,225) until April 1, 1930.

According to Julian H. Toulouse, actual production began sometime in 1930. Irregardless of the exact year, it would pre-date acl (painted label) bottles which first started to appear around 1934/35. Of course, Duraglas would not join the Owens-Illinois team until 1940.

So what I'm looking for are those "possible" 1929 examples if they exist - and definitely the 1930 thru 1933 examples.

Here's are some links if you would like to brush-up on your Owens-Illinois history. And please note this is not intended to create a debate involving the dot / no-dot discussion. I think most of us will agree that if the bottles in question are non-acl and of the deco-style variety, more than likely whatever mark they have, whether it be a single 9 or a zero/0, the odds are it is either a 1929 or 1930 bottle. I realize that some bottlers were still producing non-acl deco styles as late as 1939, but I believe they will be far and few between.

                                    First let's just see what we can find with a single ...

                                                         9 ~ 0 ~ 1 ~ 2 ~ 3

         ... and if any 9s turn up, then we will take a vote as to whether they are 1929 or 1939.

                  The earliest example in my collection is the "Quality" bottle pictured below. 








Bill Lockhart Articles http://www.sha.org/research_resources/newsletter_articles/lockhart.cfm http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/OwensIll_BLockhart.pdf Owens-Illinois Plant Locations/Numbers http://www.angelfire.com/tn/traderz/owens.html Bottle Makers and Their Marks / Diamond Superimposed ... http://www.myinsulators.com/glass-factories/bottlemarks.html

I expect this to be a brief thread, as I am doubtful of many 1929 thru 1930 Owens-Illinois bottles turning up. Most will likely be 1931 thru 1933. And if you post, please show a picture of both the bottle itself (with a description) as well as a picture of the base. One picture is worth a thousand words.

Note: The first O-I plant location/number is No.1 Toledo, Ohio. But whether they actually made the very first bottles, I would expect so, but not sure.

                                       Thanks in advance to all who participate. 

                                                        SODAPOPBOB

[ Quality ~ Fremont, Nebraska ~ Coca Cola Bottling Co. ~  3 <(I)> 1 ~ Fairmont, W.VA. ~ 1931 ]
        




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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 2:18:10 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 2:21:53 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		[ Owens-Illinois List ]




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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 2:47:18 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		 

                   
                                                         1929s
 
        Do They Exist?

< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 9/29/2011 2:50:43 PM >

(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
Post #: 4
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 4:29:34 PM   
TheCaliKid

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/8/2010
From: Calistan
Status: offline 		Where have you been?

I'm heading out to Randsburg on Saturday morning.....gonna get me some moar. There are three different shops there that sell bottles - mostly western ones I might add.



You wanted to know where the 29's are, did you? Apparently in Randsburg:



(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
Post #: 5
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 5:01:20 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
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Kid ~

What do you mean "Where have I been?"  You only have 187 post compared to my 3184 post! Where have "you" been?  Lol  (Just kidding).

And if you like "wide" imagery, check out this website link that goes straight to a timeline of major events for 1929.

We still need to go bottle huntin' "one of these days."

Take care,

Bob

1929 Timeline Link:  http://xroads.virginia.edu/~1930s2/time/1929/1929fr.html 

(in reply to TheCaliKid)
Post #: 6
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 5:16:29 PM   
TheCaliKid

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/8/2010
From: Calistan
Status: offline 		Wow, that site is really cool. Whoever put that together really put some effort into it. Bookmarking for later.

Well, yes, I have a low post count.....but hey, I don't have 500 bottles to go off and take pictures of either! So, there's your lack of motivation right there. 


Yes, I would like to go hunting still. I think I have kinda given up on the "side of the road" method. I'd like to get into digging at remote sites. I hear the BLM is cracking down on activities like this tho. 

If you could find out, would you like to try to dig in the Darwin area? I heard of a guy that does it the last time I was in Lone Pine and a lady who owns the rock shop there in town said her brother does it. (he lives in Monterey of all places)

Knowing my luck, there won't be anything left to find, at least not soda bottles. There is a real finite supply, if you know what I mean. Besides, people have been scrapping those places for decades already. This isn't the  midwest or east coast folks! We have to remember too, there just weren't a whole lot of people out here in these remote places to begin with.


Did you see my thread about the museum I went to in Laws yet?

http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Some-bottle-pictures-from-Laws%2C-California/m-447904/tm.htm


(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 5:38:11 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		 
Kid ~

Great tour of the museum and it's bottles. But I wouldn't call that a thread ... it's more like a "rope!"

Good job!

By the way ... I wonder if Dean would send me a Ruby Red, too?  Lol   Just kidding, Dean. Don't you dare offer me one! I'd feel terrible if you did.

                                                 Now back to the 1929'ers

                                                  Where the heck is one?

                                          Not in my collection, that's for sure!

                                                                SBB


(in reply to TheCaliKid)
Post #: 8
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 6:01:57 PM   
TheCaliKid

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/8/2010
From: Calistan
Status: offline 		Thank you for the complements!

Not to thread jack, but you should take a gander at my other two recent threads, since you've been absent as of late.


The soda shards of our lives:
http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/The-soda-shards-of-our-lives/m-447900/tm.htm


Kern County California bottle:
http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Kern-County-California-bottle-%2D-need-helpimas-please%21/m-447886/tm.htm


Well, I'm going to be gone for 5 days on an epic camping/road/hiking trip with my wife (girlfriend, but we might as well be married, actually we will be Common Law married soon if this keeps up.) to the eastern Sierra and environs. The aspen trees are gonna be turning colors! (for those of elsewhere in the nation - don't get mad, it's just that as a native-born Californicator I never get to experience seasons!)

When I get back, where is the best place on the forum to share vacation pictures?

Here's a sneak "peak" (as we are going back to some of the same places.)


A little slice of heaven @ 10,000 feet:











(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 6:51:03 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		 
Kid ~

1.  This thread will likely be slow going anyway. I doubt many members are in a hurry to check every one of their non-acls for a "maybe" 1929/1930 Owens-Illinois mark. So don't worry about what you post here. Anything goes for now. But if it takes off and a lot of O-I bottles start showing up, we might want to cool it. 

2.  Circumstances don't allow me to get out much these days. So I will have to take a rain-check on going anywhere. I haven't been able to go bottle hunting in months. Just a few antique shop finds.

3.  That picture you posted looks like the Mineral King area. I was there years ago. Did you know that Walt Disney wanted to build a "Mountain Theme" amusement park there at one time? The Sierra Club put a stop to it.

4.  I'll check out your other threads soon. I'm sure they will be worth a look.

Have a good trip ... but I'd take your longjohns along if you plan on visiting anything at 10,000 feet this time of year.

Later,

Bob  

< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 9/29/2011 6:55:03 PM >

(in reply to TheCaliKid)
Post #: 10
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/29/2011 7:47:11 PM   
TheCaliKid

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 6/8/2010
From: Calistan
Status: offline 		Observations duly noted sir!


That picture was taken in the Inyo National Forest. However, Kings Canyon National Park is just on the other side of that ridgeline in the picture.   

(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
Post #: 11
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 2:18:55 AM   
bottleopop

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		Hi Bob,

I have a deco Big Shot 24oz with the big shot himself on it. It's an Owens-Illinois bottle.
The numbers on it are: 
9   9
  2
I cannot find any dot.

I vote that it is a 1939 bottle.

_____________________________

needs a bit of cleaning

(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
Post #: 12
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 4:04:52 AM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		bottleopop ~

Check out this link. It claims Big Shot first came out in New Orleans in 1935. If this is correct, then your single digit 9 would be 1939. The site even shows a picture of the base of a Big Shot embossed bottle. I can make out the plant no. 3 for Fairmont, W. VA., but I can't make out the date number ... can you?

I'd like to see a picture of the base on your bottle anyway if you feel like taking one and posting it.

Thanks.

Bob

Link:   http://magicmonkeycollectibles.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/big-shot-clear-root-beer-soda-bottle-embossed-new-orleans/ 

(in reply to bottleopop)
Post #: 13
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 11:30:35 AM   
madman


Posts: 10364
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		HEY BOB GOOD QUESTION, IVE GOT A BUNCH OF EARLY OWENS BOTTLES ILL HAVE TO CHECK THE BOTTOMS, MY GUESS IS THAT THEY WERE STILL USING THE O IN THE SQUARE MARK IN 29

_____________________________

always looking for, Toledo Ohio, Knoxville Tn. milks pharms and sodas,

(in reply to SODAPOPBOB)
Post #: 14
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 11:53:54 AM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		madman ~

Thanks for stopping by. That same thing crossed my mind. But the "Quality" bottle is the only early O-I I have ... except maybe a few Coca Cola hobbleskirts that I intend to take another look at today. I have to believe there are some 1929 O-I Cokes.

The following may help regarding the different marks you spoke of. Note how the Illinois Glass Co. and the Owens Bottle Co. "sort of" combined their marks. * The [ ] is the best I could do to make a square.

Bob


<I> - Mark of the Illinois Glass Company of Alton, Illinois in use between 1916 and 1929.
 
 [O] - Mark of the Owens Bottle Company in use between 1911 and 1929.
 
<(I)> - Mark of the Owens Illinois Glass Co. Of Toledo, Ohio used upon the merger of the Owens Bottle Company and the Illinois Glass Company in 1929 and used until 1954. Associated with this mark will be numbers to the left, right, and bottom. The number to the left indicates the manufacturing plant. The number to the bottom is the mold number. The number to the right is the date number and can usually be added to 1930 to get the year of manufacture. Bottles from the early 1940s were marked with a single date digit to the right of the mark that may cause confusion with bottles manufactured in the early 1930s. Although some bottles from 1940 were simply marked with a 0, others were marked with a dot following the 0. This use of a dot to designate a 1940s age continued until a two digit date mark was instituted. Still, the single digit and dot designation may be found on bottles through 1946, though the two digit markings began in 1943. Further confirmation of a 1940s age is that stippling is commonly found on the base of these bottles, which is an indication that the glass is Duraglas, which began to be used in 1940. An exception to the dating formula was on very small medicine bottles where accompanying numbers were left off entirely or only a single date digit was used into the 1950s.

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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 11:59:07 AM   
madman


Posts: 10364
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline 		OH YOU MEAN EMBOSSED SODA BOTTLES DUH ME, OK I CHECKED ALL MY TOLEDO STUFF MOST OF THOSE DONT HAVE AN OWENS MARK THEY HAVE NUMBERS LIKE 19N OR 28N ON THE SIDE HEEL OR BASE, AND THE ONES THAT DO HAVE A LATER DATE HERES THE CLOSEST I COULD FIND




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_____________________________

always looking for, Toledo Ohio, Knoxville Tn. milks pharms and sodas,

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RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 12:15:43 PM   
madman


Posts: 10364
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

madman ~

Thanks for stopping by. That same thing crossed my mind. But the "Quality" bottle is the only early O-I I have ... except maybe a few Coca Cola hobbleskirts that I intend to take another look at today. I have to believe there are some 1929 O-I Cokes.

The following may help regarding the different marks you spoke of. Note how the Illinois Glass Co. and the Owens Bottle Co. "sort of" combined their marks. * The [ ] is the best I could do to make a square.

Bob


<I> - Mark of the Illinois Glass Company of Alton, Illinois in use between 1916 and 1929.
 
 [O] - Mark of the Owens Bottle Company in use between 1911 and 1929.
 
<(I)> - Mark of the Owens Illinois Glass Co. Of Toledo, Ohio used upon the merger of the Owens Bottle Company and the Illinois Glass Company in 1929 and used until 1954. Associated with this mark will be numbers to the left, right, and bottom. The number to the left indicates the manufacturing plant. The number to the bottom is the mold number. The number to the right is the date number and can usually be added to 1930 to get the year of manufacture. Bottles from the early 1940s were marked with a single date digit to the right of the mark that may cause confusion with bottles manufactured in the early 1930s. Although some bottles from 1940 were simply marked with a 0, others were marked with a dot following the 0. This use of a dot to designate a 1940s age continued until a two digit date mark was instituted. Still, the single digit and dot designation may be found on bottles through 1946, though the two digit markings began in 1943. Further confirmation of a 1940s age is that stippling is commonly found on the base of these bottles, which is an indication that the glass is Duraglas, which began to be used in 1940. An exception to the dating formula was on very small medicine bottles where accompanying numbers were left off entirely or only a single date digit was used into the 1950s.

YES BOB THANKS FOR THE INFO ON OWENS I GREW UP IN TOLEDO OHIO LOL! I DONT THINK EITHER OF THE BOTTLES WEVE POSTED ARE FROM THE 30S AFTER A QUICK SEARCH MY VARIETY CLUB BOTTLE IS FROM 1940 NO DOT AFTER 0.??? AND IM GUESSING YOUR BOTTLE TO BE A 41


_____________________________

always looking for, Toledo Ohio, Knoxville Tn. milks pharms and sodas,

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Post #: 17
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 12:16:51 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		madman ~

What "brand" is that?  It looks like a good candidate (if that's a zero I see) for a 1930 Owens-Illinois.

Is there a dot after the zero?

Also, I wanted to mention that any 1929 Cokes will be on the so called Christmas bottles marked below the signature with ... December 25, 1923. Which were in production at least until 1938.

Thanks.

Bob

(in reply to madman)
Post #: 18
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 12:21:29 PM   
SODAPOPBOB

 

Posts: 3678
Joined: 3/10/2010
Status: offline 		madman ~

Duh, myself. I see the "Variery Club" now!

I realize there are exceptions ... but the reason I "suspect" my Quality bottle is a 1931 is because "most" of the Owens-Illinois bottles had Duraglas on them by 1941. Plus, "most" 1941 bottles would likely be acls.

Bob

< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 9/30/2011 12:24:28 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL) - 9/30/2011 12:43:38 PM   
madman


Posts: 10364
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

madman ~

What "brand" is that?  It looks like a good candidate (if that's a zero I see) for a 1930 Owens-Illinois.

Is there a dot after the zero?

Also, I wanted to mention that any 1929 Cokes will be on the so called Christmas bottles marked below the signature with ... December 25, 1923. Which were in production at least until 1938.

Thanks.

Bob
BOB NO DOT AFTER THE ZERO BUT THE RESEARCH I DID SAYS THEY STARTED IN 35? YES ILL AGREE ABOUT THE ACLS IN 41 BUT THERE WERE STILL ALOT OF EMBOSSED BOTTLES USED DURING THAT TIME AS WELL


_____________________________

always looking for, Toledo Ohio, Knoxville Tn. milks pharms and sodas,

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