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GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters

 
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GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 3:59:12 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Just picked up a few bottles today, the two notable ones are a GII-65 and a national bitters for $190.  I can only find a listing for an olive Westford Eagle, but this one is more of a red amber, I don't detect any olive.  The National bitters, (woo hoo I found one!) is in great shape minus one small ding on the side of the foot, and a bit of exterior stain, but both were obviously sitting in someones basement because they're very clean otherwise.  Any ideas on time period on both and value?  Thanks in advance. 

Asterisk




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 3:59:55 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Front...




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 4:02:14 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Nice crude applied lip...  are any of these pontiled?  The base is flat but has an off centered circular area that is more pitted, and textural. 




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 4:04:01 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		National Bitters..  Would you call this a standard amber coloration?




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 4:07:35 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Here is the damage, 1/8" X 1/8" and very shallow, probably 1/32" deep.  Now what would you call this?  A Flake, a Ding, or a Chip?  I'm not quite sure of how to label this defect... 




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/25/2010 4:11:31 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		And Lastly the National Bitters does have a patch of external haze.  I've read that some external haze can be cleaned or removed without tumbling.  Any ideas?  I'd like to get this guy nice and sparkly without damaging it in the cleaning process.  I know BarKeepers Friend has some Oxalic acid in it, should I stay away from it?  I've used it sucessfully on other bottles, but cleaning haze has always illuded me.  CLR?  All things considered I feel like I came away with a good deal, any ideas on the value of the two?  Thanks much everyone

Asterisk




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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 3:25:25 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		I know there's some flask and bitters experts out there ;-)  Any ideas?

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Post #: 7
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 4:29:28 PM   
CALDIGR2


Posts: 2162
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Your pic lacks clarity, but the "ding" looks like a burst bubble.

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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 4:29:42 PM   
div2roty

 

Posts: 1437
Joined: 12/23/2008
From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store
Status: offline 		I saw some pretty nice National Bitters at the last show I attended from around $450. I would think you could get it for about $400, so you just gotta try to figure out how much the damage would impact value. I would say you did fine. In general I'd rather pay $450 for a mint one than get a damaged one for much less, but on ebay I would expect yours to bring in the $200 range, but what do I know.

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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 4:30:28 PM   
div2roty

 

Posts: 1437
Joined: 12/23/2008
From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store
Status: offline 		the ones I've owned were very bubbley

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Post #: 10
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 8:53:46 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks CALDGR2 and div2roty,

Yes I'm frustrated with my camera right now, a cell phone is all I've got, still need a cable to get my other good camera on line again, hence the untelling pictures. 

I can see what you're saying caldgr2 about the burst bubble look, but it has the effect of an impact that created it.  About the haze, I think I'm going to try some #0000 steel wool tonight and see, but practice on another piece first. 

Yeah div2roty, I'd rather have a minty piece too but for the Westford Liberty Eagle flask and a National Bitters with a very small ding I'd say it was a pretty good deal.  I'm usually more condition conscious, but I couldnt' pass up the deal.  This one has some large bubbles but not a mass of small bubbles and not incredibly crude as you suggested your's were.  Perhaps a later variant?  12 1/2" light amber and Yellow Amber towards the top where the glass is thinner.  Kovel's calls this Gold Amber I believe.  But then i don't always know what Kovel's is thinking!

Which leads me to my other question, whats up with the Westford flask?  I've only seen them sell in the Olive Amber coloration, this one is a Red Amber with no hint of olive whatsoever.  Any Ideas on worth on this guy?  it's mint minus some light highpoint wear and bubbly as heck. 

Regardless, Thanks both for some thoughts.

Asterisk

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Post #: 11
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 9:21:35 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 11468
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

National Bitters does have a patch of external haze. I've read that some external haze can be cleaned or removed without tumbling. Any ideas?


I use a cloth buffing wheel on a bench grinder. I make a wet paste with polishing compound and polish the area on the bottle. It sometimes works pretty well.
Practice on cheap bottles first. Its easier to do large round bottles, small rectangular ones are tricky.

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RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 9:23:09 PM   
madpaddla


Posts: 4036
Joined: 12/29/2005
From: The great state of New England
Status: offline 		Westford and Willington traded molds and glass blowers quite often, which is why yours looks very similar.  They would trade b/c of large orders, etc.  Your Westford variant is quite collectible.  A definite keeper.  Congrats.  The Westford flasks start at 150 - 200 range, yours should go beyond that.

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Post #: 13
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/26/2010 9:28:04 PM   
cyberdigger


Posts: 11901
Joined: 11/29/2008
From: I 195 @ US 9, NJ USA
Status: online 		I think the whole bottle would look better in a matte finish, considering it is a figural and represents something ( an ear of corn ) which does not translate well into shiny glass, but a frosted effect would really bring out all the organic details of this splendid ear... oh am I typing out loud again?

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Post #: 14
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/27/2010 8:04:43 PM   
Bixby Bill


Posts: 342
Joined: 4/24/2009
From: Ellington, CT
Status: offline 		That`s a nice couple of bottles you picked up! The Westford eagle flasks are a LOT harder to find than the sheaf of wheat ones, and they do come pontilled, but those are extremely rare. These are usually found in olive amber, red amber is good and definitely places it as being from Westford. Like Ben said, Willington and Westford would help each other out if one was down when a rush order came in or if the order was too big for what they could manage at the time. Westford produced almost only red amber and amber glass, while Willington produced ambers, greens, aqua, and blue-green colors. That`s why you sometimes see a Westford in a different color, but when it`s red amber, it`s generally accepted as truely being Westford. The last Westford eagle flask I had sold for $350 about 8 years ago, and with the economy being what it is, I`d guess that yours may be worth a little more than that. I hope I helped you out some!

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Always looking for anything Bixby: bottles, tins, boxes, trade cards, advertising, etc. Been collecting for 33 years and still don`t have enough of them! Also looking for early gas & steam engines, machinery, and Conn. drugstore bottles!

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Post #: 15
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/27/2010 8:34:58 PM   
Lordbud

 

Posts: 2247
Joined: 6/16/2005
From: San Jose
Status: offline 		Ebay is such a "hit or miss" affair. A "Central California" seller recently put up some Western pre-pro figural openers up for auction. I won five out of the six I bid on, for what in my opinion were not "over the top" prices. So what you might get on ebay will depend on the large amount of variables with the potential buyers in ebayworld. But you will reach the largest audience of potential bidders should you put up either bottle for auction...and with "today's economy" don't forget a reserve. No point in giving anything away because of apparent lack of interest.

< Message edited by Lordbud -- 8/27/2010 8:35:45 PM >

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San Francisco Bay Area bottles and go-withs.

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Post #: 16
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/29/2010 3:21:06 PM   
asterisk80

 

Posts: 142
Joined: 8/24/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for the great info! 

Madpaddla: Thanks again for popping up with some really great info! Fantastic stuff on Westford and Willington's history and mold useages, very cool.  Being from the Nutmeg state that means a lot.  I was super excited to find it and even more now :)

Bixby Bill:  Thanks so much for the info on the colorations, place of origin, and your sucess selling a Westford flask.  Very helpful info, had no idea they went for that much, good to know :)  And I had no idea about the eagles being more rare than the sheafs, also great to know.  Checked out Mansfield today, had been meaning to get down there all summer, but after you mentioned it I remembered the fun I had and some of the decent bottles I had found, so went down.  Picked up a Gordon's dry gin with the labels, and original stopper with the cork and a few meds for 15.  Not bad, love them labels.  Hope you've had sucess with your summer. 

and thanks Lordbud on the ebay thoughts.  I've been watching for sometime now, and I know it's crazy how things fluctuate.  I saw a L. Rose Co. unlabeled go for $45 the other day, and now other people are starting to try to sell them and can't get $5.  But it certainly does serve it's purpose like you say :)

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Post #: 17
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/29/2010 9:46:29 PM   
Bixby Bill


Posts: 342
Joined: 4/24/2009
From: Ellington, CT
Status: offline 		I was set up at Mansfield today, I was the guy set up in the middle row near the old chicken coops with almost nothing but bottles. You must have seen me there, we probably even talked and didn`t know who we were talking to! Maybe next time. Glad you had some luck finding a couple things there, I found a couple bottles but nothing to get exited over.

_____________________________

Always looking for anything Bixby: bottles, tins, boxes, trade cards, advertising, etc. Been collecting for 33 years and still don`t have enough of them! Also looking for early gas & steam engines, machinery, and Conn. drugstore bottles!

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Post #: 18
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/30/2010 3:16:50 PM   
div2roty

 

Posts: 1437
Joined: 12/23/2008
From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store
Status: offline
quote:

Yeah div2roty, I'd rather have a minty piece too but for the Westford Liberty Eagle flask and a National Bitters with a very small ding I'd say it was a pretty good deal. I'm usually more condition conscious, but I couldnt' pass up the deal. This one has some large bubbles but not a mass of small bubbles and not incredibly crude as you suggested your's were. Perhaps a later variant? 12 1/2" light amber and Yellow Amber towards the top where the glass is thinner. Kovel's calls this Gold Amber I believe. But then i don't always know what Kovel's is thinking


Yeah, i'd buy it too if it were cheap enough, then I would just resell it. I just meant that I don't know exactly how much to take off value wise. The figural bitters are so generally collected that they tend to do ok on ebay, but I would list it with a reserve, or with a higher minimum bid.

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Post #: 19
RE: GII-65 Westford 1/2 pint and National Bitters - 8/30/2010 3:18:00 PM   
div2roty

 

Posts: 1437
Joined: 12/23/2008
From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store
Status: offline
quote:

I use a cloth buffing wheel on a bench grinder. I make a wet paste with polishing compound and polish the area on the bottle. It sometimes works pretty well.
Practice on cheap bottles first. Its easier to do large round bottles, small rectangular ones are tricky.


Gunther, would it be ok if I just hit it with a hammer and broke it right away in order to save me some time?

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Collector of Delaware Bottles, figural bitters, early freeblown. Ebay

Antique Store

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Post #: 20
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