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HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE

 
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HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE - 9/30/2007 8:42:45 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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I HAVE A DR. J. HOSTETTERS BOTTLE WITH BOTH LABELS INTACT AND THE LEAD FOIL AROUND THE TOP. ON THE BLUE LABEL IT SAYS; HOSTETTER AND SMITH, SO I KNOW THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST BOTTLES BECAUSE GEORGE SMITH HELPED DAVID HOSTETTER START THE BUSINESS. MY QUESTION IS; THE BOTTOM IS MARKED BY TWO VERY LARGE PARENTHESIS MARKS EMBOSSED CLOSE TOGETHER. I HAVE NO IDEA WHOS BOTTLE MAKER MARK THIS IS. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF, HEARD OF THESE? WILL POST PICTURES IF NEEDED JUST LET ME KNOW. Thank you.

< Message edited by bamascavenger -- 9/30/2007 8:48:22 PM >


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RE: HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE - 10/1/2007 8:55:41 AM   
cowseatmaize


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It's probably just a mold ID, not a maker. Also, from what I can find, Smith died in 1884 so by then there would have been many molds being used at the same time and probably by different blowers.

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RE: HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE - 10/1/2007 5:50:18 PM   
BRIAN S.

 

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Hi Terry G. ,
Please post up a pic . I would be interested in seeing that base embossing .
Thanks , Brian

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RE: HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE - 10/1/2007 9:47:14 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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will do brian sometime tommorow. ok? Been busy. I'll post front back and bottom pics, Thanks for replies. Just thought it was unusual that the glass makers would not leave a mark like. S.MCKEE AND CO, W.MC C AND CO, AGW, A, ETC... MOST MOLDS HAVE NUMBERS IN LATER YEARS, LIKE I HAVE SEEN 726N. This one is way too strange, so i will post and maybe someone will know. Thanks Brian!

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RE: HOSTETTERS AND SMITH BOTTLE - 10/2/2007 11:42:10 AM   
CALDIGR2

 

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I have dug several Hostetter's with the "parentheses" on the base. This mold dates from the late 1860s and has not been attributed to any glass house that I'm aware of. Out here in CA we are a bit out of the Hostetter's realm, with the exception of the locally made varieties. It was a VERY popular concoction, wasn't it?

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic - 10/2/2007 5:40:53 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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pic 1




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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 2 - 10/2/2007 5:46:37 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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pic 2




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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 3 - 10/2/2007 5:49:43 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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pic 3




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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 5:52:59 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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another




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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 6:20:47 PM   
cowseatmaize


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I tried to lighten it and make it fit. All I see are the two dots. They could be just air vents but are in an odd place.




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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 6:32:04 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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NO, THEY ARE ABOUT 1/8 INCH IN DIA. AND STICK OUT LIKE THEY WERE EMBOSSED. NOT SURE WHAT AN AIR VENT IS. LIVING TO LEARN. Thanks.

< Message edited by bamascavenger -- 10/2/2007 6:38:56 PM >


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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 8:27:22 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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can anyone give me a fair market value on this one? thank you, terry

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 8:28:36 PM   
GuntherHess


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Looks like someone just added two holes to mark the mold for whatever reason. Doesnt seem like an effective spot for venting. Reminds me of the potentcy dots on the bottoms of snuffs.

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/2/2007 10:07:26 PM   
lobeycat


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The front label (the important one) is in fair condition at best. I'd say a fair market value would be in the $35-$40 range. Labeled Hos's aren't all tha scarce.
Lobey.

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/3/2007 12:24:57 AM   
bamascavenger

 

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THEY ARE NOT HOLES, THEY ARE TWO 1/8 INCH PROTRUDING, EMBOSSED DOTS. ALSO, MOST HOSTETTER'S YOU SEE WITH LABELS DATE NEAR THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, 1890........ONWARD.
THIS IS HOW SOME OF THE DATINGS GO; IF THE DARK LABEL READS HOSTETTER AND SMITH IT WAS PRIOR  GEORGE SMITHS PASSING 1884. THE NEXT DARK LABEL YOU SEE AFTER THAT HAS HOSTETTER AND COMPANY, WHITH DAVIDS PASSING, THE DARK LABELS SAY; HOSTETTER'S CO. D. HERBERT HOSTETTER PRESIDENT. (WHOLE LOT OF THESE AROUND) ORIGINAL DAVID HOSTETTERS SON. SO I KNOW MY BOTTLE SALES FOR MORE. I SOLD ONE JUST LIKE IT BECAUSE I DID NOT NEED TWO. IT SOLD  FOR $100 DOLLARS. IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY AT THE QUALITY OF LABELS AFTER GEORGE AND DAVID DIED, YOU CAN SEE ST. GEORGES HEAD TOUCHING THE LETTERS OF HOSTETTER'S. IN MINE AND OTHERS OLDER ONES THE HEAD OF ST. GEORGE IS NO WHERE NEAR THE LETTERS. BIG DIFFERENCE IN COLLECTORS AS TO THE NAMES ON THE DARK LABLE, HOW CRUDE THE EMBOSSING IS OF DR J. HOSTETTER'S STOMACH BITTERS, 1890 0N THE LETTERS GOT MORE CRISP AND STRAIGHT. MY BOTTLE HAS SOME HAMMER WHITTLE TO IT ALSO. VALUE GOES UP AGAIN. TWO DOTS UNDER THE R IN DOCTOR, BUT OLDER VERSIONS HAD STRAIGHT LINES TOO, SO IT IS NOT A TRUE AGE TEST OF THE BOTTLE. IF THE ONLY THING YOU HAVE IS A CRUDE BOTTLE OR TUMBLED ONE, YOU CAN JUDGE AGE BY THE CRUDENESS OF THE EMBOSSING, THE APPLIED TOP. VERSES TOOLED IN THE D, HERBERTS. ALSO, THE GLASS MAKERS:  L AND W: S.McKEE AND Co.:  Mc C AND Co:  AGW:  A, Etc.... The black glass being the oldest brings the most. THAT IS THE OTHER WAY TO TELL THE AGE OF A HOSTETTER'S: COLOR! BLACK, GREEN, OLIVE, HONEY AMBER, DARK AMBER, LIGHT AMBER,Etc... THE OTHER WAY TO TELL AGE AND VALUE IS; SIZE, HOSTETTER'S SOLD THE BIG BLACK HOSSES 9INCH BY 3 INCH SQ. THEN THEY WERE MADE ANYWHERE FROM 8 1/2 TALL BY 2-1/2 SQ. TO 2-5/8 SQ. THEN IN AND AROUND 1900 THEY STARTED SELLING  BOTTLES THAT HAD 18 FLUID OZ. EMBOSSED ON ONE SIDE. A MUCH SMALLER BOTTLE, FOR THE SAME PRICE BUT WITH LESS ALCOHOL. OH, FOR THOSE WHO DID NOT KNOW, WHEN THEY FIRST STARTED BOTTLING THESE, THE WHISKEY IN THEM WERE RYE WHISKEY AT A 47 PERCENT BY VOLUME. THAT WAS LATER REDUCED BY THE FDA ACT. SO, AS YOU CAN SEE, YOU MIGHT SEE SOME SELL FOR A LITTLE OVER 30 DOLLARS EVEN WITH LABELS, BUT IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN AN OLDER ONE. TAKES A LOT OF QUESTIONS IF YOU ARE NOT HOLDING IT IN HAND TO KNOW WHAT TO BID, OR IF YOU CAN JUST TELL, MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT THESE SELL FOR. OK, I AM OUT OF WIND AND AM NOW CRAWLING DOWN OFF THE PODIUM! HOPE THIS HAS LEARNED OR HELPED. IF I AM WRONG I TAKE "CONSTRUCTIVE" CRITICIZEM VERY WELL. HERE TO LEARN. P.S. SINCE I LIKE THIS SITE SO MUCH I CONTRIBUTED AGAIN TONIGHT AND WIFE WANTS A TEE! I WANT THIS PLACE TO STAY. GOOD NIGHT TO ALL.

< Message edited by bamascavenger -- 10/3/2007 12:30:59 AM >


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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/3/2007 8:27:12 AM   
GuntherHess


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quote:

THEY ARE NOT HOLES


By holes, I dont mean holes in the bottle.
To make an embossed dot you have to make a hole (or recess) in the mold.
They are offset , sort of randomly placed which makes me think they were added as an after thought on the factory floor. For what reason I dont know.  On snuffs they used marks like that to indicate potentcy.
It appears to be a fairly early version based on the embossing , I would guess 1870-1880 period.

< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 10/3/2007 8:29:15 AM >


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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/3/2007 3:52:52 PM   
lobeycat


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So what's it worth Matt? Not really up on my Hostetter's and I seem to be way off
Lobey.

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/3/2007 8:03:15 PM   
GuntherHess


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quote:

So what's it worth Matt? Not really up on my Hostetter's and I seem to be way off
Lobey.


I dont really follow bitters closely , I can only estimate from ones I have sold. The unlabeled amber 1870s ones I have sold have gone for about $20 average. The ones with the better glasshouse marks and the more crude ones tend to bring a little more. Labels normally can add quite a bit to early bottles but people are pretty particular on condition of labels. Also bottle values in general are pretty low right now. Taking that all into account, the bottle isnt real crude and the label is pretty damaged, I would say your estimate is probably pretty good around $35-40.
Just my opinion of course for what its worth.

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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/4/2007 6:06:17 PM   
bamascavenger

 

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Boy, I could get more than that on good ol EBAY they get that price for 1900's no label and crisp markings. But, it is going no where, it is here to stay next to my whittled WC&C CO. HOST. may show it off some day! thanks for comments guys. P.S. CAN ANYONE SHOW ME A 187O HOST, WITH LABELS BETTER THAN THIS? MOST I SEE ARE 1900 OR LATER.

< Message edited by bamascavenger -- 10/4/2007 6:07:28 PM >


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RE: HOSTETTERS pic 5 - 10/4/2007 7:49:51 PM   
GuntherHess


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You ask for an opinion on value then you complain about it when you get it?
I'll say its worth $1000 if it makes you happy.

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