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Headstone in a creek?!?

 
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Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 6:10:07 PM   
swizzle


Posts: 3596
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline
FRANK.
    Baby
J.C. & A.A.
VAN HORN
   BORN
NOV. 27 1875
    DIED
MAR. 16 1876

I found this in the creek today. As I was standing there wondering where it could have possible have come from I heard a car drive by. I was a lot closer to the road then I thought. I'm guessing it was a prank by some local kids. They must have got nervous driving around with it and tossed it over the bank. Tomorrow I'm gonna call the town hall to see if they know where this is suppose to be. At least I didn't have to hike this one nearly as far as the last one and this one was lighter too. Swiz
Post #: 1
RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 6:18:07 PM   
bostaurus


Posts: 2299
Joined: 2/17/2009
From: Madison, Wisconsin
Status: offline 		You might be able to trace it and find the graveyard. I know a lot of counties have lists made of grave yards for geneology purposes.
It is hard to understand why people would do something like that.

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 7:20:55 PM   
swizzle


Posts: 3596
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline 		Just out of curiosity, if I don't find the cemetery it belongs in, then what? I'm gonna do my best to find out which cemetery this belongs in even if it means calling every town hall and/or county building in New York state. If I don't find the rightful cemetery then do I keep it, give it to the town hall, give it to the police dept? Where should it go? Depending on when this was taken they might not have a written record of where it belongs. Town halls and county buildings do catch on fire and records get lost. It's possible that I might not find the cemetery. I plan on searching the records for any J.C. & A.A. Van Horn. If I can find both of them then I know I have the parents. Does anyone else know where I should look besides finding every cemetery on my NY topo maps and going to every one until I find it? Swiz

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 7:27:27 PM   
RedGinger


Posts: 6727
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		It's good to hear someone doing the right thing.  Who knows how it got there?  It's interesting, for sure.  I would try putting an ad in the paper for descendants of this child.  Don't give them the stone, obviously, in case they're not honest people, but if they are the descendants, they may be able to lead you to where the stone belongs.  There's probably a family plot.  Check with local cemetery caretakers.  They usually know a lot about the families buried there.  We have a great one near us and he's a nice older man with a lot of knowledge. 

Also, you could get in touch with your local news station.  They could run a story on it.  That might help return the stone to its rightful place, while you get a plug in about digging.  Once people see that you are the type of person who does the right thing, they would be more inclined to let you dig their property.

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 7:52:18 PM   
swizzle


Posts: 3596
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline 		The cemeteries should have plat maps of all the family plots. One of the local cemeteries here had all of their records burn and they had to manually go back through the cemetery and get as much info as they could. Taking pics and video of every stone, mapping out where each plot is and writing down all the info they could read off of the stone and then putting it all on paper and online. I'm sure I'll find it tomorrow. I don't have any plans to call the local news station. If someone else does though I'll give a shout out to RedGinger on Antique-bottles.net. I figure your career could use the extra plug. Swiz

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 8:46:04 PM   
surfaceone


Posts: 7119
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline 		JHey Swiz,

Great rescue of some history there. There may be some sorta Cemetery Association in your area, that might be able to help. Good luck.

Just to be on the safe side, while you are the custodian, I'd lay down a line of brick dust across the doorstep, start puttin together a gris-gris bag, maybe start wearin a pierced silver dime on my ankle...

Oh, and for the sound track, may I recommend Clifton Chenier, Dr. John, and Professor Longhair. Keep a candle lit...



< Message edited by surfaceone -- 6/6/2010 8:51:24 PM >

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 9:08:24 PM   
Rockhounder55


Posts: 837
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Winnemucca, NV.
Status: offline 		Good luck, Swiz. I hope you find where it belongs.  ~Mike

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 9:19:26 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 11470
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline 		Back then you could bury family in your own yard, they didnt have zoning like they do now. Its pretty common to see graves around old house sites. Sometimes when developers are buldozing new subdivisions they run across these scattered graves and thier workers are told they need to disappear. Nothing delays progress like moving graves.

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 9:23:08 PM   
JOETHECROW


Posts: 9804
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: Northwestern Pa. (Near scenic Lake Perfidy)
Status: offline 		Hey Swiz,....quite an ornate stone,...and in good condition,...any cemetaries upstream?....Glad you're trying to find where it belongs. I wonder how long it's been in the creek?                                                                                           Joe

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 9:29:56 PM   
madman


Posts: 10364
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bostaurus

You might be able to trace it and find the graveyard. I know a lot of counties have lists made of grave yards for geneology purposes.
It is hard to understand why people would do something like that.
  ditto interesting find!

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 10:28:13 PM   
whiskeyman


Posts: 2420
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		SWIZ...I'd like to commend you for what you are willing to do.

1st check with your local historical society..the one I am a volunteer of has books and documentation on local cems.
2nd...check with the library in the Geneaology section for books that contain cemetery listings.

3rd...and I have found this to have happened on occasion - sometimes a person is buried alone...later the spouse or another family member (ie...child) dies and another stone is made, which includes both names. The "old stone" is then used as a foot marker, or discarded. yep..discarded.
Besides vandalism and intentional desecration by contractors/builders and or farmers (who prefer a cem wasn't on the property and could care less about maintaining same), this is the only other reason I know a stone would be cast off.
Unless...there is an old cem nearby where you found the stone.
Good luck in your endeavor.

oh...another reason for discarding a stone is it was damaged and replaced, but this doesn't appear to the the case with yours.

< Message edited by whiskeyman -- 6/6/2010 10:30:08 PM >

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 10:41:03 PM   
Wangan

 

Posts: 1136
Joined: 12/4/2009
From: Northern Maine
Status: offline 		Hi Swiz,
I also want to commend you for your respect.My family and friends and others have had flowers stolen from our families graves.I am going to buy a trail timer camera to prosecute the culprits.Stones have been intentionally pushed over in the neighboring town on Halloween nights,(they got caught by the way).Sometimes I wonder if there is any respect at all in the world and then someone like you comes along.Thank you.
                                                               Best regards,Tim

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Post #: 12
RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/6/2010 11:42:31 PM   
whiskeyman


Posts: 2420
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline 		SWIZ..I found where the stone belongs...>>

Auriesville Cemetery
Town of Glen, Montgomery County, NY

VAN HORN, Eveline (wife of Victor PUTMAN), d. 1-27-1899, ae. 76-9-4
Louisa T., wife of John K., d. 9-15-1856, ae. 24-9-19
Mary B., dau. of Louisa T. & John K., d. 9-25-1864, ae. 19 yrs.
(The above three on Putman monument.)
Jacob, d. 12-21-1869, ae. 69-9-23
Sarah, wife of Jacob, d. 10-4-1873, ae. 67-2-28
Frank, son of J. C. & A. A., b. 11-27-1875; d. 3-16-1876
Alice A. PUTMAN, wife of Joel C., d. 2-22-1887, ae. 49 yrs.

http://montgomery.nygenweb.net/glen/auriecem.html

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 12:09:02 AM   
swizzle


Posts: 3596
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline 		Awesome!! Thank you Whiskeyman!! I'll see if I can get ahold of someone at that cemetery in the morning. I'd rather just find the caretaker and replace it without a big what to do. I think I'll ask him if anymore were missing while I'm there. If so I'll wait for the creek to drop and the water to clear and go back for a better look. This stone ended up being a little farther away then I thought it would as its seems its jumped the river.

As far as the vandals go I see that every year. I use to mow and weedeat in a cemetery. Move the flowers and displays, clean around the stones and put everything back nice and perty. It seems that the older thin stones are the ones that get it the most although I've seen where kids will use bars to knock over monuments. One very beautiful vault was completely taken down and removed because of kids busting it up, breaking into it and stealing the skulls of the bodies inside. That one had stone pillars and the whole nine. I also saw in that same cemetery where they tried to steal or at least knock over a cannon and kicked thin stones in half. One guy I use to work with was busted with some of his friends at a funeral home. They would hang out there after hours smoking crack and then steal from the bodies. They had their pictures taken with some of the corpses and in one case a women walked in there before the funeral for a quiet moment with her aunt only to see her sitting up completely topless and 4 or 5 people all passed out on the floor in one of the back rooms. There's a lot of sick and twisted people out there. I couldn't believe it when he didn't show up to work and then to see his face in the paper as one of the guilty people that did all of that. They almost shut down the funeral home over that one. Its one of the oldest funeral homes in the area and I believe it was the owners son who let them in and was using it is a flop house. Sad but true. At least this stone will have a short journey and a happy ending. Thanx for your blessings and all your help guys and gurl. Swiz

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Post #: 14
RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 12:28:39 AM   
surfaceone


Posts: 7119
Joined: 12/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

SWIZ..I found where the stone belongs...>>

Auriesville Cemetery
Town of Glen, Montgomery County, NY


Brilliant researching, Charlie! Bravo! Well done.

Nadar
The Catacombs
1861-62

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Post #: 15
RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 12:38:46 AM   
morbious_fod

 

Posts: 4020
Joined: 3/4/2007
From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia
Status: offline 		People who disrespect a cemetery by this type of desecration are worse than scum. I've been known to walk in cemeteries, sometimes at night as well, there is just no more peaceful and eerily beautiful place, and some of the monuments are just amazing to behold either for their artistry, age, or sheer size, and are a study of the societies that erected them. So sue me, I've always had a dark tinge to my personality, as if the handle didn't give that away already. Unfortunately when these desecrations happen, it's usually those weird goth people who get the blame, but aside from some I have met who were just posers playing with satanism, most goths are as respectful of these places as I am, actually they are often much more respectful than the idiot "normal" people who have no respect for the dead who usually end up being the ones caught doing this, because they think it's funny. Let's get drunk/stoned and break grave stones. *shakes head* Morons.

Swizzle you should be given all the praise in the world for returning that head stone to it's rightful place. Many would have just left it lying there. Good Job!

< Message edited by morbious_fod -- 6/7/2010 12:39:50 AM >

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 12:46:49 AM   
swizzle


Posts: 3596
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Upstate NY
Status: offline 		This one was no trouble at all. I only had to carry it 40 feet up a steep, muddy bank to the road. I'm guessing by all the moss on the stone that many people did just leave it there. I spotted it from 20 feet away. The first headstone I carried was a b!tch. I carried that one for 4 miles and that one weighed 54lbs this one is only about 40+/-. Thanx for all the kind words and praise. Swiz

< Message edited by swizzle -- 6/7/2010 12:49:13 AM >

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 2:16:45 AM   
RedGinger


Posts: 6727
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		Great work, Whiskeyman.  That is a horrendous story, Swizzle.  That's why I'm being cremated!

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 3:35:08 AM   
JOETHECROW


Posts: 9804
Joined: 9/3/2005
From: Northwestern Pa. (Near scenic Lake Perfidy)
Status: offline 		OMG!...What a great, yet disturbing story(s)..Swiz.....attaboy on having the "right stuff"! Charlie "Whiskeyman" Way to go! Two forum members connecting and changing things for the better. What a great bunch of folks on here.          Joe

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```````````````````````````````````
In the woods we return to reason and faith.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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RE: Headstone in a creek?!? - 6/7/2010 7:20:08 AM   
Wangan

 

Posts: 1136
Joined: 12/4/2009
From: Northern Maine
Status: offline 		Im glad this turned out to be a complete ending! My hat is off to you both!Man Swiz,those are the most terrible desecration tales I have ever heard.Thanks again for righting a wrong.




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