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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> Helpin with i.d. of an early one.

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Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 5:57:25 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline This is a bottle I picked up recently, and I am trying to learn more about it.  What form would it be called, where was it made, when was it made?  I know it is very early judging by the pontil scar, but I have not been able to find another to match it up too.  It is very very crude, and the color of the glass is so dark I would almost call it blackglass.  The top is very drippy, and the shape of the bottle is no where near symetrical.  Here are some pics for everyone to look at, and I am sorry for the qualty!  I was in a bit of a hurry.  If anyone needs to see more I have no problem taking, and posting them here. Hope everyones weekend is going great! Brad Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 5:58:02 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline 2 Attachment (1) (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 2

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 5:58:41 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline 3 Attachment (1) (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 3

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 5:59:18 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline 4 Attachment (1) (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 4

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 5:59:55 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline 5 Attachment (1) (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 5

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 6:00:59 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline Here is the last one for an idea of scale.  Thanks alot for looking!! Attachment (1) (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 6

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/21/2008 9:20:50 PM    beendiggin Posts: 618 Joined: 6/30/2005 Status: online It looks like a freeblown bottle from the early 1800's. I don't know if it's European or American. Maybe someone can tell by the pontil scar? _____________________________ (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 7

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/23/2008 6:20:31 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline Just bumping this one up.  I am still trying to learn more about this one.  It sure looks like a medine form, and I am almost positive it was made before 1820.  It is freeblown, and does not match up to any other bottles from the era I have been able to find on the net.  The bottle came from the Galloway collection, and there were two of them.  The other is dead mint, but the patina to this one is very neat.  Thanks again for looking, and I appreciate any information or comments added. Brad < Message edited by texasdigger -- 6/23/2008 6:21:28 PM > (in reply to beendiggin) Post #: 8

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 12:35:16 AM    Penn Digger   Posts: 190 Joined: 5/12/2008 From: N Penn Status: offline I definately would not call it "black glass."  Not dark/black enough.  Black is too much color or all colors.  Your's has very nice color. P D < Message edited by Penn Digger -- 6/24/2008 12:38:53 AM > (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 9

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 1:10:09 AM    capsoda Posts: 7743 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline Hey Brad, That is a nice one. Going by the shape and the applyed bead lip I'd say med, eastern glasshouse, blown cylindrical and paddle shaped possibly. Nice sticky ball pontil. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to Penn Digger) Post #: 10

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 1:38:25 AM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline Thanks for the input guys.  Capsoda you answered the most important question to me.  I thought this bottle was American made, but I wanted someone to back me up on my thoughts.  My estimation for age would be 1790-1830.  I could be off, but I belive that to be fairly close.  The shape to me has always said medicine, but I am not as familiar with this time period of bottles as I am 1840 forward.  I never thought it to be true blackglass, but in some light is very dark.  The color and crudity is what brought me to this bottle, and then the price was very fair.  So this one came home with me along with the other bottles that helped me to spend way too much at the Houston show this weekend.  When I had some offers on  the Simmons cure and pitcher I dug  I went a bit crazy.  Once I sell the pitcher off it will cover all my spending this weekend, and allow me to buy a Texas Cough Balsam bottle I have been wanting for a long time.  I try to not invest cash out of my pocket into bottles.  It suits me to sell the stuff I dig that does not fit my collection.  Then invest the cash back into stuff I do collect.  Or bottles I know I can make a little profit off of.  That is why this bottle came home this weekend.  I am not sure when I will list it on the bay, but it will be headed there when it has set on my shelves long enough.  Thanks again guys this site is still by far my favorite!  I have about 15-20 new Texas druggist, patnet meds and sodas I will be posting in the new to the collection thread soon. Brad (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 11

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 11:18:36 AM    downeastdigger Posts: 1282 Joined: 8/22/2005 From: Crawling through the mud and briars of Eliot Maine Status: online OK here's my 2 cents worth. I think the bottle came from New Orleans. I think it may have been blown outside of the US, not sure, but I have an old Harmer Rooke catalog that has similar bottles, and they were all listed in a collection of very early Southern Glass that was dug from very early sites in the Southern Delta region. I'd say it is 1790-1820, could have been a medicine, or spirits. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it :) _____________________________ Bram Get busy diggin, or get busy dyin' http://www.GreatBayCatering.com cool YouTube song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd34vJohGXc (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 12

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 11:35:50 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 4926 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline One like that was posted a while back. I think it may have come from chip wrecks in the carribean. Seems like the consensus was it was english or european. Its been a while though and my memory isnt too good. Maybe someone can dig up that post. _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to downeastdigger) Post #: 13

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 2:04:01 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline As far as I know this bottle has been unearthed or bought out of the sea quite a while ago.  The person I bought from bought from a old collection.  Thanks for the help guys.  I will look for the post you spoke of Mr. Hess. East digger Did the catalog you found the similar bottle in list an estimated value? Thanks again guys Brad (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 14

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 2:57:22 PM    downeastdigger Posts: 1282 Joined: 8/22/2005 From: Crawling through the mud and briars of Eliot Maine Status: online That catalog is at home, I'm at work ( working :) I'll check it out tonight _____________________________ Bram Get busy diggin, or get busy dyin' http://www.GreatBayCatering.com cool YouTube song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd34vJohGXc (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 15

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 7:24:10 PM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline Thanks for looking at that for me Doweast I appreciate it.  I look foward to hearing from you, (in reply to downeastdigger) Post #: 16

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/24/2008 10:25:52 PM    capsoda Posts: 7743 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline The reason that I say American is the pontil. The sticky ball or solid glass pontil is typically American and during the years from 1790 -1820 New Orleans was under French (1790-1803) and US (1803-on) control and both were not on very good terms with the British Empire during this time. It is definetly not Dutch or French. Also during this period you would have been very hard pressed to find a glass house in the South. The conditions nacessary for setting up a glasshouse were usually very isolated and hard to reach and in unfriendly Indian territory. Can't think of a single one down this way but I do know that manufactures of meds, mineral waters, sodas and any other glass bottles and jar placed large orders with northwestern glasshouses. What was produced in the south was stoneware and pottery. < Message edited by capsoda -- 6/24/2008 10:45:47 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 17

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/25/2008 12:14:27 AM    texasdigger Posts: 244 Joined: 1/6/2006 From: Roanoke Texas Status: offline As I mentioned earlier I am not really up to snuff on glass this old, but what I have learned about the pontil is in line with what Capsoda is saying.  To me European bottles have a certain look to them, and this bottle does not match them to my eye.  I could be completly wrong, but either way I am very happy to have this bottle.  The more I look at it the more it grows on me.  It has been a lot of fun to hear everyones oppinion on this one.  I am off to try to locate the thread Gunther mentioned earlier in the this thread on a similar bottle.  Maybe it will shed a bit more light on the subject for me.  Thanks Capsoda you always have something relevant to add. Brad (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 18

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/25/2008 2:03:27 AM    capsoda Posts: 7743 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline Most early European bottles found in the area will be from Mobile East to the bend of Florida. Pensacola and Mobile were owned by the Spanish, French, British and Americans at different times and some of them owned each more than once in the last 400 + years. Any Spanish, French or British bottles found in the northern Gulf area will be very old stuff like onions, demijohns and a very few utilitys. We used to dig onions all the time. I have seen very few of anything else. West of the Mississippi around New Orleans and on to Texas the British bottles will be absent. you will find a few Spanish and more French, mostly around New Orleans. After the late 1700s and early 1800s demigraphics began to change and mostly American stuff will be found with some German, Dutch and French import stuff thrown in. From the late 1830s through the Civil War there was a great influx of bottled items from the Caribbean Islands, Cuba and Jamica, mostly British, French, Dutch and Spanish in that order. From 1866 it was American until the 1880s when some European imports started to flow through the southern ports. Most glass you dig in the Deep South came from somewhere else because we just didn't have the sand that can be found up north. But we had and still have an abundance of clay. In eastern Texas and around the settelment towns you should be able to dig some pretty old eastern American glass that was brought by settelers and by boat. There will be a test on Thursday!!! < Message edited by capsoda -- 6/25/2008 2:08:10 AM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 19

RE: Helpin with i.d. of an early one. - 6/25/2008 3:27:17 AM    deepbluedigger   Posts: 221 Joined: 1/12/2006 From: Yorkshire, England Status: offline A very nice bottle! It looks like a dip mold utility / medicine of roughly 1780 - 1820  (probably, from the lip style, the later part of that period). Could be American, but could easily be English. That's a common pontil style (after sand pontil, probably the most common) on English bottles with that kind of flat base, before about 1830. It's also a common shape for English utilities of the period. Collectors of early bottles this side of the pond would call that black glass, which isn't a reference to the colour being actually black, but is used to refer to all dark olive green or dark olive amber glass of the 17th, 18th and early 19th centuries. It's got it's origin in the terminology used by the old glasshouses at the time such bottles were made. Jerry < Message edited by deepbluedigger -- 6/25/2008 3:44:48 AM > (in reply to texasdigger) Post #: 20

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