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Hinge-molded bottle ID request

 
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Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/14/2012 5:28:51 PM   
thewumpus99

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/13/2012
Status: offline 		Can anyone help me identify the purpose/origin/date of this bottle?
The bottle is 9.5 inches tall, 2 1/4 inches at its base, and just under 2 1/2 inches at its widest spot. The seams indicate a 3-piece hinge mold, and the neck seams go all the way up to the base of the applied finish. The glass is olive-colored. There is no embossing on the sides. The bottom has a “B” and a “3” embossed on it. (I've found several other bottles which are nearly identical, but with slightly different kick depths/shapes (this one is dome-shaped, but another is conical, although always with the raised dot in the middle), and different numbers appearing on the bottom... in addition to “B 3”, I've also got “B 1”, “B 8”, and “B 10”). The sides of the finish are nearly vertical, but slope inwards slightly. The glass contains a number of bubbles.

The bottle was found in the water of an old harbor in the Bahamas, and so was very likely of British/Scottish/Irish origin.

Thanks!




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< Message edited by thewumpus99 -- 1/14/2012 5:31:24 PM >
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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/14/2012 5:29:40 PM   
thewumpus99

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/13/2012
Status: offline 		Here is a picture of the base.






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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/14/2012 6:08:26 PM   
RED Matthews


Posts: 2393
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: online 		Hello  John Maly,  I had to look up your name because I couldn't address it to the wumpus. 

The dot in the center of the bottom push up is a vent hole system that had sort of a tapered start to it.  It also came along just before what is sometimes referred to as an "improved pontil'. 

The mold seams confirm that the mold system was a three part mold.  Not a three leaf or section mold.  The base of the mold had two hinged shoulder halves that opened  out  and completed the cavity space for the final blow of the parison after it was closed into the mold.  I noted in the right hand section of the shoulder segments, in the corner - what looks like a dot.  This is not a normal anomaly, because I don't think it would be a vent hole in that location.

The taper of the diameter tells me that the bottom of the mold is actually what I would call a dip mold and this taper lets the bottle-maker pull the bottle out of the mold base after it is blown.  This would also mean that there might not be a pronounced mold seam around the periphery of the heal-glass on the bottle. 

The finish was no doubt an applied band of glass that was tooled.  If this is so there should be some horizontal tool marks on the outside of the finish band glass.

My guess is that it was a beer, ale, or wine bottle.  There are others that can no doubt tell you the approximate time of the bottles making, than I could.  RED Matthews


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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/15/2012 8:30:56 AM   
thewumpus99

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/13/2012
Status: offline 		Red,

Thanks for the reply!

Not seeing any tooling marks on the finish.

The size seems right for beer/ale, since the volume looks to be very close to that of an "export" beer bottle. I just put it next to an export, and it's similar except for the contour; I've never seen a beer bottle with such sloping shoulders, or such a sharply tapered body. In contrast, the early exports generally seem to be even more boxy with a longer neck, while this has an even shorter neck than a late export.

Not sure what wine bottles of the era looked like; were they this small?

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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/16/2012 10:32:19 AM   
rpinkham

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 12/16/2011
From: SE Pa
Status: offline 		Interesting as i dug this example last week in south east Pa...look familiar? After inspecting the base closely i noticed there may be some sort of embossing which i took for an anomaly at first.




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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/16/2012 11:17:51 AM   
Ratzilla

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 4/29/2009
From: Mullica Hill NJ
Status: offline 		Definately an English ale of the late 1800's - I've seen early labeled examples, just about always English or Irish breweries...

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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/16/2012 5:25:14 PM   
thewumpus99

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/13/2012
Status: offline 		Interesting, that looks like the exact same bottle, rpinkham! Although it would be as surprising to find an American ale bottle here as to find an English ale bottle in the Philadelphia area! Might I ask what letter/number combination appears on the base?

Ratzilla, thanks for the insight! I would love to find a labeled example, as it would probably help narrow down the date of manufacture quite a bit.

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Post #: 7
RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/16/2012 9:04:42 PM   
rpinkham

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 12/16/2011
From: SE Pa
Status: offline 		Bad light for this photo. Hope you can see what appears to be a sideways "v" and the # 11. Always good to find anything pre 1900 here. I am interested in the date as well just to date the area i am poking around in...you are in the UK?




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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/18/2012 8:37:28 AM   
ChrisP1

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 1/3/2012
From: Southold, New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thewumpus99

Can anyone help me identify the purpose/origin/date of this bottle?
The bottle is 9.5 inches tall, 2 1/4 inches at its base, and just under 2 1/2 inches at its widest spot. The seams indicate a 3-piece hinge mold, and the neck seams go all the way up to the base of the applied finish. The glass is olive-colored. There is no embossing on the sides. The bottom has a “B” and a “3” embossed on it. (I've found several other bottles which are nearly identical, but with slightly different kick depths/shapes (this one is dome-shaped, but another is conical, although always with the raised dot in the middle), and different numbers appearing on the bottom... in addition to “B 3”, I've also got “B 1”, “B 8”, and “B 10”). The sides of the finish are nearly vertical, but slope inwards slightly. The glass contains a number of bubbles.

The bottle was found in the water of an old harbor in the Bahamas, and so was very likely of British/Scottish/Irish origin.

Thanks!





I am also interested in this type of bottle as I have come across many of these while diving here on Long Island.  I didn't think much of them since they don't have any embossing on the side, but I did bring up one and it has a nice dark olive-green color and great bubbles.  The one I have has a "B" & "5" embossed on the bottom.  Does anyone know the significance of these markings?


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Bottle Newb
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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/18/2012 8:04:05 PM   
thewumpus99

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 1/13/2012
Status: offline 		Ray,

These bottles were found in the Bahamas, in the bottom of an old harbor. Something like 95%+ of the bottles I find diving here are from Europe (mostly Blankenheym & Nolet case gin bottles, and late-style export ale bottles). I'd only ever found one until the recent hurricane, then I found 3-4 more the first day out after that. One of them actually still has its cork down inside, so desalinating it now, then going to dry it with alcohol and then acetone and then try to extract it once it's dry.

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Post #: 10
RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/19/2012 11:35:17 AM   
tigue710


Posts: 4142
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: connecticut - nor cal
Status: offline 		they are export beer bottles from the united Kingdom.  They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands if not millions around the world.  The most common products put up in them were Guinness and Bass ale...   Ive dug them with labels intact still...


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RE: Hinge-molded bottle ID request - 1/19/2012 12:11:22 PM   
diggerdirect


Posts: 275
Joined: 5/2/2010
From: New York State
Status: offline 		I have a TOC city dump (1890s-1918) here in NY State that I've dug literally hundreds of this type bottle in, from a light olive green to almost blackglass. I dont think they are as old as thier manufacturing method would indicate. (3 piece w/applied top)

Al


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