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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Reproduction bottles and jars. >> How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Clevenger Bros. reproductions.

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How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Clevenger... - 5/25/2010 6:52:22 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Here are the McKearin numberedGVII-3 GVII-4 and GVII-5 Cabin style original E G BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY / 120 WALNUT STREET PHILADELPHIA bottles and the Clevenger produced straight and beveled roof reproductions. These are some of the most desired and pricey bottles available in the bottle collecting world. It is also the most reproduced antique bottle on the Market.The Clevenger brothers made the best copy in 1930 of the straight roof version and have fooled quite a few people myself included. I will show also in this post Clevenger straight and beveled roof versions for the ability to determine an original BOOZ from the Clevengers. Only one GVII-5 original BOOZ exists and that is in the Corning Museum of glass. While not extremely rare the GVII-3 is none the less rare and has a high percentage of roof and corner damage because of the thinness of the glass in those area's of the bottle.It was difficult to blow the glass into the bottles corners and crevices thus the bottles were weak at those points.This is why the roof variant on the GVII-4 with the beveled roof was changed. Metal plugs were added in the corner peaks of the roof in the mold to acheive this. The bottle was manufactured at the Whitney glass works in Glassboro New Jersey in the years 1858 through the 1860s and right on up to 1870. The Whitney glass works had a retail office in Philadelphia at 118 Walnut street and right next door to them Edmund G. Booz had his store front where he was selling his cabin shaped Booz bottles to liquor merchants and tavern owners through out the Delaware Valley.There was speculation that the bottles manufacture date was in the year 1840 but that has since been disproved as Edmund Booz would have been only sixteen years of age at that time, an age probably a little to young to be a Liquor Merchant. The original bottle had a paper label wrapper that depicted an early American cabin. On the rear of the bottle on the roof is the date in bold font 1840. This led many to beleive that the bottles date stamped on the roof was from William Henry Harrison's presidential Campaign Log cabin and hard cider in the year 1840. Early in the 20th century Edwin Atlee Barbers book titled American glassware and the book by Stephen Van Rensselaer's American Bottle's and Flasks only fueled the myth regaurding the Harrison presidential campaign. A publication in 1926 by Hazel Mirkil in the magazine Antiques proved the 120 Walnut had not been in existance before the year 1856 as the city of Philadelphia had renumbered their streets in that year. The reason the city renumbered was simple the Center City portion was growing and it was easier to label blocks in the city as the 100 block 200 block ect. The old address of Boozs store would have been 26 Walnut street. Booz also had a property directly behind 120 walnut street at 15 Granite street. In the Days the famous Dr.Dyott had his store front at second and Race Front street being located on the river was where all of the business's that shipped goods via the Delaware river. This was only three city blocks from where Booz had his business on Walnut Street. In fact all of the important business locals were on the river for easy access of shipping of goods. There is sound justification that the mold maker who the Whitney glass works used for the bottle modeled his cabin in the image of a glass workers home which in the early 1840s through up to 1970 dotted the landscape surrounding the old Whitney Glass works location in the heart of Glassboro. The glass workers lived in small modest 4 room 2 story homes shaped exactly like the Booz bottle. When you peeled the label off the bottle it now closley resembled the glass workers homes. The last vestages of these old homes came down in 2007 as part of the down town revitalization project the town of Glassboro was instituting.Glassboro has done a terrible job preserving its rich glass industry. Only a handfull of the original colonial homes still stand today.The 5 point intersection where the Stangers had founded the second glass works in New Jersey in 1775 has lost all of its historic charm with the original Stanger mansion house as the only standing structure from the original works. Here is a group picture of the the Original Booz bottles and their Clevenger counterparts.Left to right the Clevenger beveled roof,the original Whitney beveled roof, The original Whitney straight roof and the Clevenger straight roof Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen Post #: 1

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 6:54:58 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Here are the Characteristics and measurements of the original Booz bottles. The bottle was blown in a hinged mold which opened and closed diaganaly. A treadle mold was used applying foot power to the mold which allowed the master blower to close the mold around the gather of glass when blowing into it and than opening it when he was finished blowing the bottle. When the bottle was released from the mold it sat on a steel pedestal 2 7/8s in diameter.With the bottle now resting on the pedestal the slight circular depression seen on all of the Booz base's was left.The pedestal had been designed to move independently resting on a large pin.When the glass blower was finished blowing the bottle he was able to move the bottle towards him for easy removal from the mold.With the bottle now removed from the mold the blow over portion of the glass was cracked off.Now it was the gaffers turn to place the the applied top to the bottle. Once that task was completed the bottle was placed into the annealing oven which had a lower temperature than the main furnace which allowed the bottle to gradually cool. GVII-3 E. G. BOOZ'S / OLD CAIN WHISKEY Type: Shaped in the style of a small two story cabin or house. The place of manufacture: The Whitney Glass Works Glassboro New Jersey Main /High and State streets. Date of Manufacture. 1858 possibly right up to 1870 Heigth of the bottle: 7 1/2, 7 5/8s and 7 3/4 inches Width of the bottle: 4 1/16 inches. Depth of the bottle: 2 7/8 at the base and 3 inches at the roof line. The neck and lip 1 3/4 inches in total height.Finished with an applied sloping collar. The Base of the bottle: Smooth with a circular impression 1/8 inch in depth by 2 7/8 in circumference. There are two horizontal seams about a half of an inch in from the corners opposing each other diagonally The roof line: Straight ridge 4 inches in length. The front Roof design and embossing:The roof has 5 square rows of shingles in various sizes. The roof is 4 inches wide by 2 3/4 inches tall. The following inscription : E G BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY in 3/8 inch font. The rear roof design and embossing : The roof has 5 square rows of shingles in various sizes. The roof is 4 inches wide by 2 3/4 inches tall. The following inscription : 1840 in bold larger 1/2 inch font. The right side: The embossing in three rows E G BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY. The left side : The embossing in two rows 120 WALNUT ST PHILADELPHIA (there are two dots below the t in ST) The back side of the bottle: Smooth plain no inscription a large label was placed here originally. The colors the bottle is found in: Predominantly in medium orange amber with varying shades,Some pale amber, Dark green,and a pale green.I personaly have never seen anywhere a color other than the amber.I have seen dark and lighter shades of Amber only on this bottle. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 2

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:01:01 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The GVII-4 E. G. BOOZ'S / OLD CAIN WHISKEY This is the original bottle with the beveled roof. Type: Shaped in the style of a small two story cabin or house. The place of manufacture: The Whitney Glass Works Glassboro New Jersey Main /High and State streets. Date of Manufacture. 1858 possibly right up to 1870 Heigth of the bottle: 7 1/2, 7 5/8s and 7 3/4 inches Width of the bottle: 4 1/16 inches. Depth of the bottle: 2 7/8 at the base and 3 inches at the roof line. The neck and lip 1 3/4 inches in total height.Finished with an applied sloping collar. The Base of the bottle: Smooth with a circular impression 1/8 inch in depth by 2 7/8 in circumference. The roof line: Straight ridge 4 inches in length.This is where this version is different than the GVII-3 Where the roof meets the gables on each side the molds sharp corners werer beveled by placing metal plugs into the mold This simple alteration made for a much sturdier roof. The front Roof design and embossing:The roof has 5 square rows of shingles in various sizes. The roof is 4 inches wide by 2 3/4 inches tall. The following inscription : E G BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY in 3/8 inch font. The rear roof design and embossing : The roof has 5 square rows of shingles in various sizes. The roof is 4 inches wide by 2 3/4 inches tall. The following inscription : 1840 in bold larger 1/2 inch font. The right side: The embossing in three rows E G BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY. The left side : The embossing in two rows 120 WALNUT ST PHILADELPHIA (there are two dots below the t in ST) The back side of the bottle: Smooth plain no inscription a large label was placed here originally. The colors the bottle is found in: Predominantly in medium orange amber with varying shades,Some pale amber, Dark green,and a pale green.I personaly have never seen anywhere a color other than the amber.I have seen dark and lighter shades of Amber only on this bottle. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 3

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:03:27 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline An original Clevenger made straight roof version in the snow. Looks like an original at first glance doesnt it. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 4

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:06:54 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The only sure fire ways to identify an original Whitney made GVII-3 straight roof Booz from the Clevenger version are as follows. On the original bottle on the right hand side the word WHISKEY has two identifying marks which clearly show the difference between it and the Clevenger bottle.There is a period after the word WHISKEY on all the original.Sometimes because of a weak mold impression the period is faint but it is usually there none the less.The second identifying trait is when viewing the word WHISKEY left to right the first three letters WHI are on the same horizontal plane however beginning with the letter S the the letters SKEY are shifted down slightly on a lower horizontal plane.On the Clevenger version the word WHISKEY lines up nice left to right on the same horizontal plane.The top fork in the letter K in the word WHISKEY is wider than the bottom fork on the same letter.The Base the the letter G in E.G. BOOZ'S is closed on the clevenger version the G resembles a letter C thus you see the incorrect listing on ebay all of the time E.C.BOOZ'S Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 5

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:11:24 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Next, on the front roof of an original Booz,both the beveled and straight roof versions have the embossing in three lines reading like this E.G.BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY When looking at the letters the following is true on all original BOOZ bottles.The C in the word CABIN should be directly below the first O in the word BOOZ'S.The letter S in the word WHISKEY should be directly below the C in the word CABIN You should be able to draw a straight line down through these letters where they line up. Attachment (1) < Message edited by Steve/sewell -- 5/25/2010 7:13:31 PM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 6

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:17:31 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The only sure fire ways to identify an original Whitney made GVII-4 Booz from the Clevenger version are as follows. The bevel cuts at each end of the roof only extend downward into the first full row of shingles On the original bottle on the right hand side the word WHISKEY has two identifying marks which clearly show the difference between it and the Clevenger bottle.There is a period after the word WHISKEY on all the original.Sometimes because of a weak mold impression the period is faint but it is usually there none the less.The second identifying trait is when viewing the word WHISKEY left to right the first three letters WHI are on the same horizontal plane however beginning with the letter S the the letters SKEY are shifted down slightly on a lower horizontal plane.On the Clevenger version the word WHISKEY lines up nice left to right on the same horizontal plane.The top fork in the letter K in the word WHISKEY is wider than the bottom fork on the same letter.The Base the the letter G in E.G. BOOZ'S is closed on the clevenger version the G resembles a letter C thus you see the incorrect listing on ebay all of the time E.C.BOOZ'S Next on the front roof the embossing in three lines reads like this E.G.BOOZ'S OLD CABIN WHISKEY When looking at the letters the following is true also on beveled roof version original BOOZ bottles.The C in the word CABIN should be directly below the first O in the word BOOZ'S.The letter S in the word WHISKEY should be directly below the C in the word CABIN You should be able to draw a straight line down through these letters where they line up. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 7

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:20:07 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Another picture of an original Booz beveled roof with light colored lines showing where the Clevenger version bevel would be. On the original Booz bottle the bevel is only into the first full row of shingles. On the Clevenger version the bevel is larger and into the second full row of shingles. Attachment (1) < Message edited by Steve/sewell -- 5/25/2010 7:22:12 PM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 8

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:27:11 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The letter K in the word WHISKEY on The side of an original Booz bottle is wider in the top fork of the letter. On the Clevenger version the same letter K is larger on the bottom fork of the letter. Here are two pictures of an original Booz to explain this. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 9

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:29:10 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The letter K in close with hopefully a good explanation of the larger fork at the top. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 10

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:32:47 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The Clevenger version of the bottle.This is a picture of the side of the bottle.Look at the word WHISKEY. The embossing is applied neatly straight left to right.Look also at the letter K,notice the bottom fork is wider now on this version.This is another good way to tell an original straight and bevel roof version from their Clevenger made counterparts. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 11

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:36:00 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Here is a picture of the Clevenger version roof embossing showing how the alingnment of the letters in the words E.G. BOOZS OLD CABIN WHISKEY.Another sure fire way to tell if the bottle is a Clevenger version is to look at the bottom begining of the neck radius and where it bleeds into the roof line.On Clevenger versions the first Letter O in the word BOOZ is drawn into the neck. Attachment (1) < Message edited by Steve/sewell -- 5/25/2010 7:39:57 PM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 12

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:44:59 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The base of both the originals and reproductions are almost identicle. If there is a difference I cant detect it and have looked at seven versions I personaly own of the original and compared them to four Clevenger versions in my collection and cant find any difference's. Image removed - copyright violation Attachment (1) < Message edited by Admin -- 10/26/2010 10:00:21 AM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 13

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:49:14 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Here is the ultra rare and one of the most valuable bottles in the United States housed in the Corning Museum. This is the only known version of the GVII-5 bevel roof and is light aqua in color.It has been suggested by old time glass employees who worked at the Bridgeton Glassworks in 1885 that they remember seeing the aqua colored version of the Booz bottle at their plant Image removed - copyright violation Attachment (1) < Message edited by Admin -- 10/26/2010 10:04:01 AM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 14

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:57:12 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline One of my favorite pictures I call cabin fever.Original Booz bottles,Clevenger Booz bottles, Kellys Old Cabin Bitters,Nearly Identicle to the Kellys the Old Cabin Bitters a Smokine meat sauce bottle from Winnepeg Canada and a Holterzermanns bitters all cabin designed. These are some of my prized bottles in my personal collection. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 15

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 7:59:13 PM    Steve/sewell Posts: 3537 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline I hope this is helpfull to everyone again.Thanks Charlie whiskeyman for emailing me today goodnight _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 16

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 8:44:50 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1385 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Very informative post. Thank you! Nice collection! (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 17

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/25/2010 11:28:09 PM    whiskeyman Posts: 2420 Joined: 4/17/2005 Status: offline STEVE...no, I thank you for making this detailed invaluable information available once again after it had been erroneously deleted due to a server glitch... I'm going to pin it to the top so as to be readily found. Thank you again...!! (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 18

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/26/2010 10:40:42 AM    Poison_Us   Posts: 2795 Joined: 5/27/2009 From: Savannah, Ga. Status: offline As always, you come up with some of the best information for the masses.  Thanks again.  I think spotting repos is possibly the most valued information a collector can have and it always eats at me if what I am looking at is genuine or not. Oh, and nice set of cabins.  You can start your own colony now. < Message edited by Poison_Us -- 5/26/2010 10:41:48 AM > _____________________________ Poison Us Member: APBCA ( www.poisonbottleclub.org ) Visit Us @: www.poisonousaddiction.com Looking for digging partners in/near Savannah. Be a friend. Give the "GIFT" of Poison. (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 19

RE: How to distinguish E. G. BOOZ originals from Cleve... - 5/26/2010 7:52:34 PM    blobbottlebob Posts: 3351 Joined: 12/20/2005 From: Wisconsin Status: offline Great post Steve. I know I have seen it before. My mom bought one at a rummage sale for a buck or two. I know it has to be a repro but I wanted to check it over nonetheless. I'll post a pic when I get the chance. Thanks again! < Message edited by blobbottlebob -- 5/26/2010 7:53:08 PM > (in reply to Poison_Us) Post #: 20

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