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Is this a mfg mark or a mistake?

 
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Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 4:38:13 PM   
donalddarneille

 

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Is this a mfg. mark or a mistake?

While going through some of my recnt finds I came across a rather plain drug bottle withe the bottom Embossed: S. B. W. CO. with a superimposed Crescent Moon over the initials. I looked up the mfg on the bottle makers mark ID page and came up with this:

S.B.W..................Saltsburg Bottle Works Company, Saltsburg, PA (c.1890-1900). Manufacturer of druggist ware.

But was not able to find anything mentioned about the crescent moon. Take a look and tell me what you think. Different mfg company, maybe with west coast ties? Imperfection giving the appearance of a moon?

Not a spectacular bottle, and this is just for my own curiostity more than anything. Just be nice to know if anyone else has seen this marking.

Photo of base:




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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 4:39:15 PM   
donalddarneille

 

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Front view of bottle:






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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 4:40:10 PM   
donalddarneille

 

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Close in shot of bottom embossing:

try one more time with photo included! Lol!





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< Message edited by donalddarneille -- 7/26/2010 4:41:27 PM >


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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 4:41:08 PM   
GuntherHess


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Appears to be a mfg flaw.

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 5:17:23 PM   
JOETHECROW


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Not so sure about the bottom, but I like the scroll work around the label area.... Vr. nice.

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/26/2010 11:29:18 PM   
blobbottlebob


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I'm going with Gunth on this one. It seems to me that if it was intentional, the moon would not be half covering the "W".

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/28/2010 11:37:06 AM   
RIBottleguy


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I don't have a picture handy, but I have at least two unembossed medicine bottles with the crescent moon embossed on the base.  I'm almost positive that the mold for your bottle was re--used.  The moon is an unknown trademark to the best of my knowledge.  Neat example.

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 7/28/2010 9:03:46 PM   
RED Matthews


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Hello RIBottleguy,  I don't think this mark is a trade mark,  I think it is a true piece of glass from a mold seam pinch that fell into the bottom of the mold assembly and then had the parison blown over it.  RED Matthews

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/4/2010 11:22:37 AM   
fred

 

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This is for Donald Darneille:

I sent a private message to you but not sure the picture was sent. I'm repeating here to insure you receive it and maybe others will have an answer as well.
The attached picture is a bottle fragment I found on the beach in Atlantic City NJ. I suspect the three letters on the base are S. B. W. indicating the Saltsburg Bottle Company but the "B'' is really not clear and could be a "G". Since you have a bottle from that company, can you verify that the partial "B" is the same as on your bottle?
Can anyone else verify?

Thanks,
Fred




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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/4/2010 11:55:26 AM   
surfaceone


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quote:

The attached picture is a bottle fragment I found on the beach in Atlantic City NJ. I suspect the three letters on the base are S. B. W. indicating the Saltsburg Bottle Company but the "B'' is really not clear and could be a "G".


Hello Fred,

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for bringing the beach glass. If it is a "G," it may be from Salem Glass Works.

"SGW (monogram on face of Mason fruit jar)..........Salem Glass Works, Salem, NJ (1863-1937), under various ownerships. Jar was probably made in the 1890s to early 1900s." From.

The New Jersey location makes me think that this is a strong possibility.

Also a possibility, though less likely, in my opinion:

"S.G.W..................Southern Glass Works, Louisville, KY (1877-c.1885). Basemark, seen on pumpkinseed flasks. Might also indicate another glass company with those corresponding initials.
S.G.W.LOU.KY...........Southern Glass Works, Louisville, KY (1877-c.1885). Southern Glass Works (also called Southern Glass Company, especially in the first two years of operation) started making glass in the fall of 1877. It was also known as "Stanger & Company", with some of the same employees of the Louisville Glass Works that had shut down 4 years earlier. Within 2 years the firm was reorganized and the firm name then became "Sherley & McCulloch". The most prosperous years of this operation seem to have been from about 1880 to 1883. In about 1885 the factory became idle, only to re-open again in 1886 as the "Louisville Glass Works Company", a name confusingly similar to other factories in the area. It was not listed in the 1887 or later directories, so this reopening evidently lasted only a few months. The 1892 Sanborn fire insurance maps show that the glass factory was by then in "ruins". The factory site was razed sometime between 1892 and 1905 as it was no longer standing according to Sanborn maps of 1905. Other marks used by SOuthern Glass Works include "S.G.W.; "SOU.G.W."; "SOU.G.WS" and "S.G.CO." Also from.



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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/4/2010 1:05:48 PM   
fred

 

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surfaceone: Thanks for your welcome and info. I am aware of the various possibilities you posted.

Since the only mention of an S.G.W. for the Southern Glass Works is on a "pumpkinseed flask" I rejected the possibility it might be from there. The only other possibilities were Saltsburg (which was in PA) or Salem (which was in NJ). The only mention of S.G.W. for Salem is the Mason jar monogram so I doubt it came from there. I could be wrong.
The bottle is fluted, about 3" in diameter. Alternate flutes end about 1 1/4" above the base. The glass is about 1/4" thick with small bubbles.
Since Saltsburg made apothecary bottles, the size and shape of the fragment seems likely to be in that category.
I thought since someone had a true Saltsburg bottle I could nail it down. Maybe Donald can shed some light.

In any case, the fragment must be at least 100 years old. Don't you wonder how and why it got to the beach and what happened during its 100 years!


Fred

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/4/2010 1:58:05 PM   
surfaceone


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quote:

The only mention of S.G.W. for Salem is the Mason jar monogram so I doubt it came from there. I could be wrong.


Hey Fred,

Here's a bit more on Salem Glass Works:

"The Salem Glass Works is now located on Griffith Street along the water front. It started in 1862, when Henry Hall, Joseph Pancoast, and John V. Craven formed a partnership and built a single furnace on Third Street in the City of Salem. They made mold blown bottles, including squat mineral waters and porters for John P. Robinson, and John C. Brown of Salem, blue porter squats and squat ales for John Ryan of Savannah Ga., squat porters and mineral waters for Wm. Morton of Trenton, and squat porters for Twitchel of Phila. This information comes from a company mould book for the years 1865, 1866, and 1867. They made the Banner, Worcester, Wm. Pogue, W.W. Lyman, and Willoughby fruit jars and the U.H. Dudley Fruit bottle. They also made Attwoods bitters, Carter’s inks, Lea & Perkins Worcestershire Sauce, cone inks, Sachem Barrel bitters, Jenny Linds, Poland Springs “Moses” bottle, Paine’s Celery Compound, Lydia Pinkham’s Vegetable Compound, Turlington Balsam, Drakes Plantation Bitters to name a few from the mould book.

Some of the bottles were standard non-embossed type, made in factory molds, others were standard slug-plate type, with the slug-plate embossed for the customer, while others were made using the customers mold. The bottle business flourished, allowing a second furnace to be built on Fourth Street, doubling the company capacity. And finally in 1876, a third furnace was built between Griffith Street and the water front, the present location. The ownership began to change in 1878, when Mr. Hall withdrew, and then in 1879, Mr. Pancoast died. Thomas J. Craven joined his brother John, to form “The Craven Bros.” Glass Co. in 1881. They built a fourth furnace at the Griffith Street site, and increased employment to 350 workers.

In 1895, the partnership was dissolved, when a stock company was formed, which took the name “Salem Glass Works”. Thomas J. Craven was president, with Louis Pancoast, John V. Craven, and D. Stewart Craven in the management. The products were still various bottles and jars like the Pettit and Mason fruit jars, amber Lorillard’s tobacco jars, blood purifier bottles, Poland Springs Water bottles, pint pickle jars for Philadelphia Pickling Co., and Mallard’s barrel shape mustards. They made the Safety Mason, Sanety Wide Mouth Mason, Eureka (script), and the Sterling (script) fruit jars." From.

As you can see they made a variety of bottles & jars, as did Southern Glass Works, I'm sure.


From.

PS. Yikes, that photo blew up! Sorry about the size, but too cool to remove...

< Message edited by surfaceone -- 8/4/2010 2:00:02 PM >

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/4/2010 4:16:52 PM   
fred

 

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I guess you're favoring Salem for the origin of the bottle. Since they made so many types of bottles and it was found in NJ that makes sense.
I originally thought the same because the letter in question seemed to have a curved left side which would be a "G." After I shrunk the photo for the forum it looked like a "B" to me. Very confusing.
Let's see what Donald has to say. Are you there Donald?

Fred

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/5/2010 2:30:01 PM   
fred

 

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Anybody have an actual example/picture of the Salem Glass Works bottom marking?
I was thinking I might be able to eliminate the "G" possibility if the marking on the fragment was clearly NOT a "G".

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/14/2010 11:03:38 PM   
donalddarneille

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fred

I guess you're favoring Salem for the origin of the bottle. Since they made so many types of bottles and it was found in NJ that makes sense.
I originally thought the same because the letter in question seemed to have a curved left side which would be a "G." After I shrunk the photo for the forum it looked like a "B" to me. Very confusing.
Let's see what Donald has to say. Are you there Donald?

Fred


Sorry so long to get back Fred, has been a busy summer!
As far as checking out the bottom embossing goes, you'll have to ask Red Matthews in a few days as I just sent the bottle to him....... with his knowledge of glass making he will be the most qualified to answere all of our questions....... DD

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/15/2010 1:15:57 PM   
fred

 

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Thanks, Donald.
I e-mailed Red and told him to read these posts to see if he can help.

Keep on digging!

Fred

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/16/2010 7:35:25 PM   
Lordbud

 

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The embossed oval with designs on the front of the bottle normally has a druggist's name, city and/or address embossed therein. I don't believe I've ever seen a "blank" like this.

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/25/2010 2:57:00 PM   
fred

 

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FYI: Red says he's pretty sure the letter is a G, making it the Salem Glass Works.
I'm guessing it was a sauce or catsup bottle because of its style.
Thanks, all, for your help.


Fred

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 8/25/2010 4:18:38 PM   
lbcicoins

 

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Nice piece of scrip....Love that stuff..Ties in to my business of coin dealing.

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RE: Is this a mfg mark or a mistake? - 9/3/2010 2:04:42 AM   
donalddarneille

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RED Matthews

Hello RIBottleguy,  I don't think this mark is a trade mark,  I think it is a true piece of glass from a mold seam pinch that fell into the bottom of the mold assembly and then had the parison blown over it.  RED Matthews


Now that you have seen the bottle "in person", can you confirm if it is slag ar a mfg mark?

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