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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Historic Glass Bottle Website >> Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish.

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Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/22/2008 10:20:50 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online I would like someone to give me some insight to book references that will tell me some information on the concept of burst-off glass finishes on jars like; mustard, snuff, utility and preserve jars, fire grenades and some colognes and the Clyde Glass fire dowser bottles.  I am familiar with how it is done but I would like to read up on the methods used in this process.  I plan on including a review of what I can find - on my homepage: http://www.bottlemysteries.com    < Message edited by RED Matthews -- 8/22/2008 10:23:26 PM > Post #: 1

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/23/2008 3:31:01 AM    cc6pack   Posts: 1147 Joined: 7/12/2003 From: Mableton, Ga. Status: offline Red Click on the Lips/Finishes link on the left. http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 2

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/23/2008 9:36:50 AM    madpaddla Posts: 4036 Joined: 12/29/2005 From: The great state of New England Status: offline Good luck Red.  Hopefully someone here can steer you in the right direction.  Interesting topic though.  Now I have to find a jar like that....too know what you folks are gonna talk about. madpaddla (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 3

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/23/2008 9:51:03 AM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Hello Red...   cc6pack did steer you the right direction in that I do have a brief discussion of the blow-over (aka burst-off) finishing (which is really a lack of finishing to some degree) in bottle making on the "Finishes (Lips)" page of my Historic Bottle Website.   http://www.sha.org/bottle/finishes.htm   One other note is that I have posted on the site an actual early 1900s film clip that shows the burst-off method of blowpipe removal!  It is fantastic and available via links at several places throughout the website including on the page linked above.  It is a link in the "burst-off" finish discussion entitled:  Early 20th century mouth-blown bottle making film clip.  (The previous is a hot link to the film clip also...at least on my computer...so just click it to see the clip.)   The film clip was courtesy of a senior engineer at the Owens-Illinois Glass Co.  I think it is just fantastic and shows the making of mouth-blown beer (I think) bottles with two blowers (gaffers) and one mold boy.   I have also taken a look at your website again (you contacted me some months ago) and would be pleased to add a link to your site on the Historic Bottle Website.  Your discussion on cast iron bottle molds is intriquing...and the fact that you used to work at Thatcher! I will be in contact later when I do some revisions to the site.   Bill < Message edited by jfcutter -- 8/23/2008 9:55:17 AM > _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to madpaddla) Post #: 4

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/23/2008 12:35:55 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline A very interesing web site you have there... http://www.bottlemysteries.com/ I was reading the section about bottom dots on stuff jars. I have heard from many sources that the dots indicated snuff potentcy but have never seen hard evidence to that fact. The marks have been used since at least the 1850s as this photo of a pontil snuff shows. Instead of embossed bumps the early snuffs used rod marks and I have also seen crosses. I think the logic for the argument that it represents potentcy is... - these marks seem to be specific to and consistently on snuff bottles (jars). - potentcy or strength was an important attribute for snuff Marks on fruit jars and other bottles are often thought to be indicators used for paying workers doing piece work. The snuff marks seem to be more consistent than marks on other types of bottles though. One thing I find odd is that they would use an embossed mark. A maker would have to know at the time they make an order how many containers of each type they need. This is compounded by the less reliable order and delivery system of the 19th century. Since all these snuff probably had paper labels it seems more likely that they would indicate the potently on the label at the time the jars were filled. Maybe there was some reason unknown to me that people would typically remove the labels on these jars (like they had coupons on them or some other reason). At this point I see pros and cons for the potency theory but I will have to keep my mind open and look for hard evidence. Again, thanks for interesting web site and keep posting to this forum.    Attachment (1) < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/23/2008 12:39:06 PM > _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to jfcutter) Post #: 5

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/24/2008 9:49:09 AM    glass man Posts: 7554 Joined: 1/30/2008 From: GEORGIA Status: offline GREAT STUFF! The film clip was like going back in time! _____________________________ LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED ! IF YOU NEED A BLESSING OR A SONG THAT WILL PICK YOU UP PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS SONG FROM"VAN THE MAN"MORRISON! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi4R2YXv_AE (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 6

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 8/24/2008 1:29:43 PM    madpaddla Posts: 4036 Joined: 12/29/2005 From: The great state of New England Status: offline That is awesome video.  Had to save it.  Just great footage. madpaddla (in reply to glass man) Post #: 7

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 5/12/2009 3:18:15 AM    lcgyy   Posts: 4 Joined: 4/14/2009 Status: offline That is also what I need,thanks! _______________________________________ 24 dvd boxset season 1-6  Dexter seasons1-3dvd Bones seasons1-4dvd (in reply to madpaddla) Post #: 8

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 10:02:10 AM    pault   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/23/2009 Status: offline I found a jar 5" by 2.5" app. ,while diving in the NIagara river clear glass, seem running from top to bottom, it has no grooves for a screw on lid. On the bottom is an anchor with an H over it above that are the numbers 10-48, to the left of the anchor is the number 6 to the right is 33. I think it is an anchor hocking jelly jar, can any one help identify it,ie. age type etc.? (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 9

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 10:25:08 AM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online HELLO pault,  I would have to conclude that your jar is one made for jelly or jam.  It is obviously am Anchor Hocking product.  The number 10-48 is no doubt the job number. The number 6 would be the plant number and the 33 the mold number.  It was a press & blow product, where the parison is made by a plunger and the final blow would be in the finishing mold.  Without seeing it, I can not tell what type of machine it was made on.  The plain lip you describe, means after the waxing of the jelly, a tin lid was placed over the jar for sorage.  It is even possible that it could have been made on a plane pressing machine.  If it was made on a Harfford I S machine there would have to have been a transfer bead under the finish to hold the parison in the final mold. I hope this helps you.  RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to pault) Post #: 10

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 12:25:12 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online To Madpaddla.  Well Ben you have had two of these bottles on eBay,  I just couldn't afford your nice returned value.  For those that are interested,  Early blown mustards, most early fruit jars that received a ground finish flattening. The one I like best is the top of the CLYDE Glass Co,. Milk Glass and Clear Glass Fire Dowser, where the finish was left rough.   I am preparing a blog on these bottles for my homepage. RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 11

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 12:44:32 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online To jfcutter;  Hi Bill,  I have been over your pages of information skidillions of times and always get concerned because there is so much information there, that I can't absorb it all. I had seen the burst off beer bottles link you listed and on the hoosierjar eBay sales where the bubble was left on the jar because the blowpipe brook off above the bubble and the bottle maker took it home for the novelty of it.  I have thank you many silent times, every time I have gone to your pages of work.  It is beyond conception and priceless to those of us that use it.  RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 12

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 12:58:03 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Hi again Red...been a while since I've checked in on Antique-bottles.com. Thanks so much for the compliments on the Historic Bottle Website! That is always much appreciated. Yes, it was a lot of work (and continues to be such, though I've actually slowed down working on it in retirement...too many things to do!) though it has proved to have been well worth the effort judging from the immense number of great responses I've received from users appreciating it...like you. Thanks again..........Bill < Message edited by jfcutter -- 9/20/2009 1:18:23 PM > _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 13

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/20/2009 5:19:48 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online Hi back Bill  I have not been able to understand how we got everything done when we were at work.  Now in retirement, I seem to be so busy I can't get much done at all. RED M _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to jfcutter) Post #: 14

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/21/2009 12:32:17 PM    pault   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/23/2009 Status: offline thank you very much the information. it is great .any general idea how old the jar may be? (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 15

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/22/2009 2:18:38 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2268 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: online Hi pault,  No it is hard to tell from what I have seen.  My guess is that it could be possibly any where between 1880 and 1940.  I know my mother used some like yours. RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to pault) Post #: 16

RE: Jar and some bottles - burst-off blowpipe finish. - 9/22/2009 3:08:29 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Hi "pault"....with the Anchor-Hocking glass makers mark on the base, the jar can not be any older than 1937 or 1938 (depending on which source one believes) since that is when that mark was first used. See the following website for more information including some that may help decode the other numbers on the base of the jar: http://myinsulators.com/glass-factories/bottlemarks.html Bill _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 17

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