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All Forums >> [Miscellaneous] >> SCAMS and FRAUDS >> Naval Boarding Weapons

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Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 12:00:41 PM    kungfufighter   Posts: 145 Joined: 2/18/2005 Status: online http://cgi.ebay.com/1700s-to-1800s-Coffee-Amber-Glass-Naval-Boarding-Weapon_W0QQitemZ330065739201QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10951QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Are any of you believers?  Not me.... < Message edited by kungfufighter -- 12/22/2006 2:48:59 PM > Post #: 1

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 2:46:14 PM    cc6pack   Posts: 497 Joined: 7/12/2003 From: Mableton, Ga. Status: offline Saw these a few years ago on ebbbb, who in their right mind would carry gun powder in such a fragile container is ludicrous. What are you reporting the violation under? (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 2

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 2:46:16 PM    capsoda Posts: 7510 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline What makes it a weapon. You fill it with powder, nails and such. Seal it with all kinds of stuff. Tie a rope around the neck of a very very thick bottle that needed additional strenght at the already super thick neck and throw it on the other ship and.......and........and.......what is it suposed to do. Just havin a little fun. An obvious fake and doesn't remotely resemble any boarding grenade i have ever seen. Maybe ebay will do something if enough of us complain. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 3

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 5:22:40 PM    kungfufighter   Posts: 145 Joined: 2/18/2005 Status: online Here's the info I found about an eBay security center complaint:   1.   First, copy the auction number (you'll paste it later) 2.   Go to bottom of page where item is posted and click on SECURITY CENTER. 3.   At the next screen, select  REPORT ANOTHER PROBLEM 4.   At the next screen, select BUYING AND FINDING 5.   At the next screen, select  PROBLEM WITH SELLER, and in the window below it,     select  THE PROBLEM YOU'RE HAVING ISN'T LISTED 6.   On the next screen, click on EMAIL US. 7.   On the next screen, paste the auction number in the appropriate box, and write your complaint in     the lower box.  Do not use quotation marks or parenthesis as they are invalid characters. Be sure to use the word "FRAUD" freely.  It's one that gets ebay's attention.  Also, request a personal response and not a canned response.   Folks may (or may not) want to be cautious about questioning the seller - he is a VERY angry man who has made any number of threats to my health/well-being this afternoon.  It's understandable though, in that he has sold many thousands of dollars of these "rare" weapons in the past several months and he'd love to keep 'em moving.  Sadly, other folks are now looking at his auctions and using them as "proof" that their twenty and thirty year old bottles are actually (gasp) NAVAL BOARDING WEAPONS.  Whoopeeeeeeee!!!!! (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 4

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 5:52:42 PM    tigermaple1855   Posts: 88 Joined: 10/18/2003 Status: offline Hi Jeff,  Got your Message and tried to reply but couldn't make it work.  After your original post is released perhaps we can all participate in helping to shut this down.  Weren't you involved in something with E-Bay back awhile?, with a disreputable seller?  Our best to Holly, hope you have a great holiday.  Dean & Anne (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 5

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/22/2006 9:16:17 PM    bikegoon Posts: 663 Joined: 10/2/2006 From: Lebanon, Ohio Status: offline Open pontil, no wear on the bottom, no wear at all. I would think a shipwreck bottle would have more "patina" to it. Nope, I dont think she is real. Looks like they tried to make it like a chesnut flask, kinda.. _____________________________ A little of everything at http://www.bottlecache.com (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 6

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/23/2006 6:42:23 PM    Flaschenjager Posts: 1107 Joined: 12/21/2002 From: Central Virginia - USA Status: offline Hi Jeff and all - Yes, any true collector of glass surely knows these are modern Mexican pieces. This seller (I've been watching, of course) has made mega bucks on these so far and seems to have PLENTY of them... an endless supply. I can't believe what some of these have been going for and I'm not sure why people want them. I hope he can live with himself after selling and fooling the buyers. Another note of interest: I have a small magazine write-up somewhere and I'm not sure how true it is, but... It states that demijohns were used in the Civil War as mines, to sink naval vessels. As a 'part time'  demi collector I found this interesting. Any thoughts on this all? _____________________________ 'Meech' Our websites: http://members.aol.com/meechuta/bottles.html Member of FOHBC - RABCA - APBCA Editor of 'The Digger' in full color! Please support the forums with a donation or purchase! (in reply to bikegoon) Post #: 7

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/23/2006 7:57:40 PM    cc6pack   Posts: 497 Joined: 7/12/2003 From: Mableton, Ga. Status: offline Meech When Farragut uttered his famous words, Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead, he was referring to what we call mines today. I find it difficult to understand how you would fuse a dimijohm. I have collected CW Artillery shells for over 30 years and have never heard of any demijohn used in the manner you quoted.  (in reply to Flaschenjager) Post #: 8

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/25/2006 7:36:35 PM    cookie   Posts: 439 Joined: 2/19/2006 Status: online Hi- After all I've read on this I know I'm better off spending my money on that fruit jar for $50,000. (in reply to cc6pack) Post #: 9

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/27/2006 8:11:06 PM    bttlmark   Posts: 402 Joined: 11/23/2005 From: N.E. Florida Status: offline sirmark is a rip. I wonder why this is still listed and not removed? Maybe eBay likes their fees more than honesty. (in reply to cookie) Post #: 10

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/28/2006 9:39:51 PM    NYCFlasks   Posts: 101 Joined: 9/11/2005 Status: offline I have been watching sirmarkw sell these things for some time, with the very first one I saw listed I knew it was junk, and was amazed by the sale price.  The seller has had 3 and 4 auctions of these bottle running at the same time. I have noticed in the last listing I looked at how he was telling the bidders to ignore the rumblings from the unknowing in the glass hobby. Man, can he ever dish it out, a yard deep and a mile wide, piled high and deep.......... (in reply to bttlmark) Post #: 11

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 10:08:16 AM    jwschaeffer Posts: 140 Joined: 9/4/2006 From: Port Carbon, PA Status: offline I know this is now a pretty dead subject but I wanted to share this letter I got from a member of Sub Sea Research from Maine (subsearesearch.com):                                                                                                                             Regarding the collection of Glass Naval Boarding-grenades as listed onEbay, (links submitted by John Schaefer), I have the following opinions,Whatever it may be worth. The one thing about old glass, it is just about impossible to verify byJust a photograph whether or not an item is authentic or not. It isCertainly impossible to date the glass from a composition perspective,(i.e. Mineral content). Nowadays anything can be reproduced exactly,Expecially glass items. What makes me doubt the claim of originality is the complete lack ofProvenance for each item!  As you may be well aware, Maine has some veryStrict laws regarding shipwreck salvage & artifact recovery. And ifThese items had originated form a shipwreck site in Maine, there shouldBe a very large trail of paperwork regarding the exact provenance ofEach item available from the State of Maine, available either throughThe State archaeologist or one of the State Universities. And I DOUBTVERY MUCH that either sourcing would condone any ebay selling of suchItems as they are extremely rare in perfect and intact forms. Regarding the contemporary glass forms, they do appear to be exactAccording to known contemporary glass grenade-forms dating between the16th-19th century, and could originate from just about any nationalityOf vessel, most probably a warship as merchants very rarely if everWould have carried such weapons. My guess would be a privateer orLetter-of-marque. Maine rivers were good hiding places during theAmerican Revolution for such vessels, and it is documented that severalSuch vessels were scuttled in Maine rivers during both the RevolutionAND the War of 1812. Again... It is the lack of PROVENANCE of such items that I question moreThan the contemporary accuracy of each piece. Without such provenance, IWould have to assume that the validity of such pieces are indeedFraudulent. Whats more is that according to the ebay pieces, theParticular stabilization laboratory is not identified, and if these wereLegitimate recoveries and items, there should be no problem inIdentifying the shipwreck from which they originated, nor any suchProblem in identifying the particular STATE AUTHORIZED laboratory! Final analysis... Yes, until PROVENANCE and IDENTITY OF THE LABORATORYSOURCE, we have to assume that the items are indeed fake. Best;Ed.                                                                           (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 12

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 11:23:30 AM    Bottleman Posts: 851 Joined: 9/3/2004 From: Central Pennsylvania Status: offline Well eBay pulled her listing the other day and now she has re-listed it. This time she did the right thing and said that most believed it was from the 1970s and she didn’t mention anything about it being made in the 1700s. Here is a link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Bonus-Black-Glass-Seal-and-Freeblown-Bottle-Combo_W0QQitemZ320066322720QQihZ011QQcategoryZ13909QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ~~Tom (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 13

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 11:55:33 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 4730 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: online I dont see anything wrong with that auction, why are people still bugging her (questions to seller)? As long as people dont missrepresent thier items who cares what price they list them for? _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to Bottleman) Post #: 14

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 12:01:23 PM    kungfufighter   Posts: 145 Joined: 2/18/2005 Status: online Well done John.  Although I certainly agree with and would not question the researcher's conclusions regarding salvage, stabilization and provenance I do think that the point needs to made that in fact one can OFTEN determine the general age or origin of a piece of glass from a picture alone.  In this case I would again reassert that there is nothing about these bottles (manufacture techniques, glass texture, color, etc.) that would lead one to believe that they were made in the 18th or 19th century.  Granted, there are some bottles and pieces of blown glass that require careful hands-on study but many can be distinguished as reproductions or fantasy pieces from pictures alone.  In this instance the bottles are not reproductions (in that they do not resemble known period objects) but rather fantasy bottles made for the modern decorator.   I think that this is an important distinction to make. (in reply to jwschaeffer) Post #: 15

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 12:09:23 PM    kungfufighter   Posts: 145 Joined: 2/18/2005 Status: online Agreed.  Marlena has actually done all of us a favor by giving folks a very public form to discuss the "deck sweepers." (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 16

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 12:31:33 PM    cc6pack   Posts: 497 Joined: 7/12/2003 From: Mableton, Ga. Status: offline Like a lot of you I've been following this with amazement that E would allow this carp. Now that they have put in disclaimers, everybody needs to go hit the report button at the bottom of the auction. By E rules you CANNOT list an item with disclaimers, you are required to verify that the item you post is real, original, etc. She cannot say make up your mind. Also now that she has had at least one of her auctions pulled E will watch the auctions she posts more closely hopefully this will make it eaiser to report any violations. I'd also like to say good job to whoever it was that bid on her auctions wink wink. (in reply to Bottleman) Post #: 17

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 1:56:58 PM    jwschaeffer Posts: 140 Joined: 9/4/2006 From: Port Carbon, PA Status: offline I have to say my concern about this, was not about "Marlena" it was more so about E seller sirmarkw. I have no clue what a deck sweeper, or boarding weapon etc etc is supposed to look like but I think it is completely wrong to be a profiteer off of other peoples ignorance. "sirmarkw" is being deceiving with many of his auctions, not just the bottles. Even though everyday in society it happens..its still wrong. "Honesty is the best policy"! I personally think these bottles and the story are "bogus". After conversations I had with individuals at the Maine State Museum, sirmarkw will be facing some serious consequences for the listings involving Gilkey Harbor. Best Regards... (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 18

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 6:04:54 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline I still have a problem with Marlena listing modern glass in the antique pre 1900 category.  She knows darn well what they are.  Sirmarkw....he is a piece of work.   I wonder how many other maritime reproductions he has listed.  Joel _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 19

RE: Naval Boarding Weapons - 12/29/2006 11:10:12 PM    Calico   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/27/2006 Status: offline I believe she feels that by offering the black glass seal she is placing it in the correct category. That's not the case though, the item that is actually up for auction has to be one that classified. (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 20

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