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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? AFTER 1900 >> Parmenter's - real or fake?

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Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/5/2006 11:17:21 PM    JB_McMunn   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/19/2006 Status: offline I am having trouble with this. I'm wondering if this is a fake. The label claims a "cure" which strongly suggests pre-1906. The T.C.W. on the bottom indicates a Wheaton source, but the Wheaton repros had a distinct marking on the bottom (either a "W" in a circle or "Wheaton, NJ"). "TCW" is found on bottles from 1901-1946. The bottle is machine made - the seams run all the way through the top of the lip. So the bottle has to be later than 1901 based on the history of Wheaton and before 1906 based on the claims for a cure, but I am not sure if a machine-made bottle like this fits that time frame. I have found only one reference to Parmenter's in a footnote in "The Toadstool Millionaires", suggesting that Parmenter's was made as far back as 1840. Any thoughts appreciated. Attachment (1) < Message edited by JB_McMunn -- 9/5/2006 11:18:58 PM > Post #: 1

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/5/2006 11:21:01 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2020 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Hmmmm, I hope you got a good bargain. It all depends, on where you got it, too. Ya never know < Message edited by zanes_antiques -- 9/5/2006 11:22:36 PM > _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 2

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 1:05:45 AM    capsoda Posts: 7700 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online Wheaton was using TCW Co as far back as 1888. They mostly made chemist bottles back then. Can't say if yous is real or not. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 3

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 6:16:07 AM    cowseatmaize Posts: 2135 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Metro West, MA Status: offline The wide mouth suggest a powder, not an oil to me. I'm not saying for sure but "fake" might be the term. A lot of labels show up an ebay and this could be a case of someone putting a real label on wrong bottle. _____________________________ My 10¢ worth (inflation) Eric If you love what your doing it might be illegal, so watch your back. (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 4

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 6:51:23 AM    woody   Posts: 1634 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline Be aware. I know a person who has made fake labels on his computer. They even wet the label with coffee to make it look old and antique. You would never know the finished product unless you use a magnifying glass to see the dots in a dot matrix printer. Very realistic to someone who doesn't know alot about authentic labels. Something to think about. < Message edited by woody -- 9/6/2006 7:38:59 PM > _____________________________ Woody (in reply to cowseatmaize) Post #: 5

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 9:13:46 AM    JB_McMunn   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/19/2006 Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: capsoda Wheaton was using TCW Co as far back as 1888. They mostly made chemist bottles back then. Can't say if yous is real or not. The years cited are directly from Dianne J. Wood, Curatorial Assistant at the Wheaton Museum in a recent email. She said Wheaton was started in 1888 and that  "TCW Co" appeared on the bottom from 1901-1946. < Message edited by JB_McMunn -- 9/6/2006 9:18:25 AM > (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 6

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 9:29:29 AM    capsoda Posts: 7700 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online Actually I got the date from the Glass factory Marks On Bottles page. It lists the mark being used fromm 1888 to present but these kind of discrepancies are common within the world of bottles. http://www.myinsulators.com/glass-factories/bottlemarks3.html _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 7

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 7:28:49 PM    WMassPete   Posts: 31 Joined: 3/7/2006 Status: offline can I see a close-up of the label..particularly the bottom text.....I bought one of these and the label gave it away...but..maybe yours is real... (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 8

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 7:44:41 PM    woody   Posts: 1634 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline I'd say it is a fake label. A machine made bottle that says "cure" on it is a dead giveaway. The pure food and drug act prohibited advertising cures and such on medicines after 1906, I believe. The label was put on as an afterthought. Probably to sell the otherwise common bottle for more money. < Message edited by woody -- 9/6/2006 7:51:07 PM > _____________________________ Woody (in reply to WMassPete) Post #: 9

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 8:01:05 PM    woody   Posts: 1634 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline Here is a good resource for the pure food and drug act. http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/history1.html _____________________________ Woody (in reply to woody) Post #: 10

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 8:38:25 PM    welddigger   Posts: 537 Joined: 4/24/2004 From: Hereford,PA. Status: offline To me the bottle looks like it is the real deal but the label just looks kinda funny. And you know what they say goe with your gut instinct. Mine is the label is newer. I could be wrong though?? (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 11

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/6/2006 8:44:27 PM    JB_McMunn   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/19/2006 Status: offline Here's a picture of the label as requested. I am not familiar with this type of bottom pattern but it looks rather sophisticated to be pre-1906, which is why I posted the question. Attachment (1) < Message edited by JB_McMunn -- 9/6/2006 8:46:27 PM > (in reply to woody) Post #: 12

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 9/7/2006 5:45:08 PM    WMassPete   Posts: 31 Joined: 3/7/2006 Status: offline hmm....well..I knew a guy who was sticking similar labels on to bottles....he kept buying a lot of blank druggist bottles..etc from me..I thought he must've been turning them purple or something...but then I found out he was just putting old looking labels on them..the bottle is definitely old....and still looks cool....even if you consider it a "fantasy bottle" or a "mock up"..but....the label just looks too similar to other ones I saw....just my 2 cents (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 13

FOLLOW-UP - 10/8/2006 3:44:12 PM    JB_McMunn   Posts: 5 Joined: 7/19/2006 Status: offline The label is a copy of an 1840s poster from the Landauer Collection of the Amercian Antiquarian Society, pasted onto a bottle from a later time period. (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 14

RE: FOLLOW-UP - 10/8/2006 3:47:47 PM    woody   Posts: 1634 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline I told you so......... _____________________________ Woody (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 15

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 10/8/2006 4:41:45 PM    kastoo   Posts: 1199 Joined: 9/7/2004 From: Lagrange, GA Status: offline I'd keep it anyway (in reply to JB_McMunn) Post #: 16

RE: Parmenter's - real or fake? - 10/8/2006 6:56:00 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 4897 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline There are some good points to learn from there... Does the labeled product match the age of the bottle? ... no. Does the style of the bottle match the advertised product? ... no Does the label show expected aging? ... no Are there other known specimens? ...no Just a few things to considered with labeled bottles. _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to kastoo) Post #: 17

All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? AFTER 1900 >> Parmenter's - real or fake?

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