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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Sodas - Embossed, Paper Label and ACLs. >> Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper?

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Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/12/2010 5:23:44 PM    whiskeyman Posts: 2420 Joined: 4/17/2005 Status: offline Article in Bristol newspapers... http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/debate_goes_on_about_origin_of_dr_pepper/47373/ < Message edited by whiskeyman -- 6/12/2010 5:36:08 PM > Post #: 1

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/12/2010 9:01:42 PM    madman Posts: 10369 Joined: 2/5/2005 Status: offline very nice great info!        now i just gotta know? who invented mtn dew?????lol _____________________________ always looking for, Toledo Ohio, Knoxville Tn. milks pharms and sodas, (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 2

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 8:11:41 AM    athometoo Posts: 1753 Joined: 9/25/2008 Status: offline great stuff  , fits right in with what ive been researching on the waco and ft worth artesias . dr pepper used this bottling company prior to being called dr pepper . they started putting dr pepper on bottles in 1914 i believe . sam (in reply to madman) Post #: 3

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 11:32:50 AM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: madman very nice great info!        now i just gotta know? who invented mtn dew?????lol Mountain Dew has always existed, it is the Alpha and Omega of the soft drink world. Long live the Dew! Amen. *snicker* Everyone knows that Bill Bridgeforth created Mountain Dew. *snicker* _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to madman) Post #: 4

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 12:57:20 PM    whiskeyman Posts: 2420 Joined: 4/17/2005 Status: offline I thought M. Licht of Knoxville Tenn invented Mt Dew...back around 1916 or earlier ???...came up with the name in any event. Back in 1991 I wrote an article for Bottles & Extras magazine about the Pepper Bros of Bristol...(C.T. & J.G.)...and their bitters....I surmised at that time that their Celebrated Aperient & Tonic Bitters may have been the base for Dr Pepper. BTW...no Bitters from the Pepper Bros are known to exist. (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 5

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 1:42:08 PM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline 1928 was the earliest reference to Mountain Dew and M Licht so far. Maybe more research will scare up something earlier. I was just messin around with Madman. LOL! Well at least we know that Dr. Charles Pepper had a bitters formula to steal, circumstantial evidence is starting to pile up in favor of Rural Retreat. What we need is a smoking gun. < Message edited by morbious_fod -- 6/13/2010 1:45:18 PM > _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 6

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 2:45:43 PM    athometoo Posts: 1753 Joined: 9/25/2008 Status: offline hey morb , if your looking for smoking guns , i think waco texas has ya beat . just ask the ATF or the locals  . cant ask david koresh about it anymore . (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 7

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/13/2010 6:14:31 PM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: athometoo hey morb , if your looking for smoking guns , i think waco texas has ya beat . just ask the ATF or the locals  . cant ask david koresh about it anymore . LOL! Good point. They don't call it wacko texas for nothing. LOL! _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to athometoo) Post #: 8

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/16/2010 11:54:15 PM    whiskeyman Posts: 2420 Joined: 4/17/2005 Status: offline Morb,,,indeed they did. Attachment (1) (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 9

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/17/2010 12:11:40 AM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline Awesome! I was wondering if there was any advertising for their operation. _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 10

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 6/25/2010 5:46:26 AM    whiskeyman Posts: 2420 Joined: 4/17/2005 Status: offline Just found where this guy took the ingredients of the Pepsin Bitters and cooked it up> http://jasonmray.com/blog/2009/07/22/dr-peppers-pepsin-bitters/ For a little about Dr. C.T. Pepper's brother and his death> http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/bristol_house_intended_for_doctor_still_stands/44420/ < Message edited by whiskeyman -- 6/25/2010 5:47:33 AM > (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 11

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 7/4/2010 1:42:51 PM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline Dr. Pepper's Mountain Herbs is always lumped in with the story of Dr. Pepper. The Dr. Pepper Mountain Herb wall clock is shown with the similar Dr. Pepper soda clock in the Soda Pop book; however, I seriously doubt the two are connected in anyway aside from the name. This goes back to the point that there were many Dr. Pepper's in the country. Below is an ad from the Bristol Herald Courier in 1905 for Dr. Pepper's Mountain Herbs produced by the Mountain Herb Co. of Knoxville, Tenn. and for sale by local Bristol druggests C. C. Minor, and the Turner Drug Company. Turns out this is actually a "local" company that seems to have no connection to the soft drink at all. Attachment (1) _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to whiskeyman) Post #: 12

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/1/2011 12:28:50 PM    texas.bottle.man2 Posts: 142 Joined: 7/2/2006 Status: offline None of the above pics are connected to Dr Pepper in Waco, Texas. Dr Pepper was first bottle in 1891 in Waco by the Artesian Manf and Bottling Co. owned by W.B. Morrison owner of  Morrisons Old Corner Drug Store and Robert Lazenby, the owner of Circle A in Waco. C.C. Alderton an employee at this drug store was the inventor of the drink in Waco at Morrisons Old Corner Drug Store, and Morrison and Lazenby formed the Artesian Bottling Co to bottle the drink. The Dr Pepper syrup was handled by the Southwestern Soda Fountain Co in Waco owned by Morrison and the Hefley brothers. This company also handled the syrup for the soda fountain business in Waco and surrounding towns. Attachment (1) _____________________________ BUYING TEXAS DRUGSTORE AND TEXAS MEDICINE BOTTLES.dose glasses/cups, patent medicine EMAIL. cctrayders@comcast.net (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 13

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/2/2011 8:01:57 PM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline Yeah we know that. The Pepper Brothers ad that Charlie posted is in connection to Charles T. Pepper, one of the Peppers who is believed to be the origin of the name of the drink, who was one of the aforementioned Pepper Brothers. I posted the Dr. Pepper bitters ad four years ago, because Dr. Pepper's Mountain Herbs is often mistaken as having a connection to the soft drink. _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to texas.bottle.man2) Post #: 14

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/7/2011 9:49:18 PM    MichaelFla   Posts: 176 Joined: 7/5/2011 From: Florida Status: online That story about the chemist's notebook of different recipes... The notebook went on eBay with an opening price of $2000. Nobody bid. The Dr Pepper bottling company says that none of the recipes in that notebook are even similar to the recipe for the Dr Pepper we know and love today. (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 15

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/8/2011 3:12:33 AM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline That's strange, our local paper had a write up of how it was purchased by someone in Rural Retreat, VA. _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to MichaelFla) Post #: 16

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/8/2011 6:27:50 AM    MichaelFla   Posts: 176 Joined: 7/5/2011 From: Florida Status: online Possibly it went to auction more than once, and I am only aware of the one instance. I remember the auction, and remember thinking at the time that it was fake. It hadn't been authenticated by anybody. (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 17

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/8/2011 12:08:22 PM    morbious_fod   Posts: 4020 Joined: 3/4/2007 From: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia Status: offline I don't think it was fake, it might not have been the modern formula for the brand, which even if it was Dr. Pepper is never going to admit to it, but it is possible that is was the original formula for Dr. Pepper's bitters, most likely stolen from the actual Dr. Pepper, which was modified to create the soda. If it was fake then why would someone go through the trouble of naming it anything other than Dr. Pepper syrup or something to that effect. Calling it Dr. Pepper's Bitters leaves too many questions, and too many holes for people to pick it apart. No forger in their right mind would leave any doubt that it is the Dr. Pepper formula like this document does. _____________________________ My website chronicling the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia or Northeast Tennessee area including Bluefield, Princeton, and Rock West Virginia www.tazewell-orange.com NEW ARTICLES: Just say Mil-Kay the story of Mil-K-Botl (in reply to MichaelFla) Post #: 18

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 9/8/2011 1:45:26 PM    MichaelFla   Posts: 176 Joined: 7/5/2011 From: Florida Status: online I have no idea. And I am not saying it actually was a fake. Just that that was the thought going through my mind at the time. But the opening price was $2000 and I thought somebody was trying to pull a scam, as they are so wont to do on eBay. It was touted as being an early Dr Pepper notebook, and had several different recipes in it. I thought maybe it was just a chemists notebook, but had nothing to do with the actual Dr Pepper beverage, since there was only the one recipe for the Dr Pepper named product. It is quite possible it was genuine, but at the time I believed it to be something else. < Message edited by MichaelFla -- 9/8/2011 1:47:32 PM > (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 19

RE: Peppers Pepsin Bitters = Dr.Pepper? - 1/20/2012 11:13:45 AM    shoshani   Posts: 2 Joined: 1/19/2012 Status: offline I definitely think that Dr. Pepper's Pepsin Bitters later evolved into Dr Pepper, for two reasons. One, the original labels for Dr. Pepper's Phos-Ferrates boast "Wheat, Iron, and Pepsin". The Pepsin Bitters formula does contain pepsin, specifically pepsin manufactured by John Wyeth & Bro., who pioneered the extraction and preparation of pepsin from hog stomachs in the mid-19th century. To have added iron and some sort of wheat extract would have been trivial; Google Books is chock full of formularies from the late 19th and early 20th century that show how to do just that. Pepsin was a big thing back then. The other reason is an ad I stumbled upon in American Bottler from March 15, 1907. Google Books digitized this from the New York Public Library, but part of the original page is missing. The ad is apparently in response to an attack publisher William Keller made in the National Bottler's Gazette in February, 1907. That publication is not online and I've not been able to find hard copies, but R. S. Lazenby took out this very testy full page ad in American Bottler in which he not only calls Keller a skunk and an ass, he answers Keller's charges by saying that Dr Pepper started as a medicinal preparation, but as its popularity as a beverage increased the medicinal elements were removed, and the Artesian Bottling & Mfg. Co. had not called it "Phos-Ferrates" or touted wheat iron and pepsin for nine years (eg, since 1898). In trying to find a better copy of this ad (which I am attaching to this post), I did find that Keller sued American Bottler for libel in the state courts of New York for this ad, and won. Attachment (1) < Message edited by shoshani -- 1/20/2012 11:16:32 AM > (in reply to morbious_fod) Post #: 20

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