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Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle.

 
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Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/23/2012 9:39:44 AM   
Sir.Bottles

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: online 		Well this is sounds stupid but, I need to know. How to find out that a bottle has been tumbled or not.

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/23/2012 9:53:32 AM   
AntiqueMeds

 

Posts: 2032
Joined: 3/6/2009
From: Frederick, MD.
Status: offline 		Not a dumb question at all.

well , I guess this implies you are getting it from someone else? Did you ask them?

Its easier to determine if a bottle hasnt been tumbled than to determine if it has in my opinion (assuming it isnt badly overtumbled).
If the glass has fine scratches or dirt on the surface it probably hasnt been tumbled.
Tumbling often leaves tale tell circular marks in the neck and bottom where the process isnt as efficient.

There are different levels of tumbling so it isnt always that simple a question.
A bottle can be tumbled and polished or tumbled and cut with diffent effects.

< Message edited by AntiqueMeds -- 1/23/2012 9:58:36 AM >

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/24/2012 8:13:32 PM   
chosi


Posts: 106
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: Northern Virginia
Status: offline 		After I tumble a bottle, I find there are 2 places that need touching up.  One is where the finger stopples touched the bottom of the bottle, which leaves either 3 or 4 equally spaced spots along the bottom edge of the base.  These spots sometimes have some cloudiness.

The other is where the cone stopple fits into the mouth of the bottle, leaving some cloudiness just inside the top lip of the bottle.

I usually rub these areas with steel wool to try to remove the remaining cloudiness.  It's possible if you looked close enough, you might see some sign of some cloudiness in one of these areas, indicating the bottle was tumbled.  


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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/24/2012 8:30:31 PM   
WonGan

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline 		I thought I remember where someone even tumbled their bottles end over end to get all areas,like corners.I have never seen a machine for this though.

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/24/2012 9:03:29 PM   
AntiqueMeds

 

Posts: 2032
Joined: 3/6/2009
From: Frederick, MD.
Status: offline 		I dont think that would acheive much additional benefit.

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/25/2012 7:13:11 AM   
Sir.Bottles

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: online 		ts very helpfull Thanx everyone

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 1/25/2012 4:09:10 PM   
Wheelah23


Posts: 4296
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Glen Ridge, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Usually tumbled bottles, as long as they're narrow necked, will have a little stain left inside the neck, where the copper can't really get. That, and the outside texture of bottles is irreversibly altered when a bottle is tumbled. The subtle difference in texture becomes obvious when you've seen lots of tumbled and untumbled bottles.

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Post #: 7
RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 10:46:23 AM   
Sir.Bottles

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 2/23/2009
Status: online 		So is tumble considered as repair? i've read an article that saying "A tumbled bottle can NEVER be mint."

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 2:52:25 PM   
diggerdirect


Posts: 275
Joined: 5/2/2010
From: New York State
Status: offline 		I wouldn't classify it as a repair, more like a restoration. Light staining can be removed with a tumble with virtually no visible signs to the exterior of the glass, except maybe under high magnification. Many, MANY bottles out there have been 'restored' at some point in their life that do not show any obvious signs. When you start 'cutting' to remove the scratches is when it becomes more evident.

I'd agree a tumbled bottle could never be mint again, on the same token that bottle couldn't be mint again to begin with.
To me any cleaning is to increase displayability

Cleaning machines dont trash bottles, its operator error that does.



JMHO

Al

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Post #: 9
RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 3:26:18 PM   
AntiqueMeds

 

Posts: 2032
Joined: 3/6/2009
From: Frederick, MD.
Status: offline
quote:

Light staining can be removed with a tumble with virtually no visible signs to the exterior of the glass, except maybe under high magnification. Many, MANY bottles out there have been 'restored' at some point in their life that do not show any obvious signs. When you start 'cutting' to remove the scratches is when it becomes more evident.


I think the fact that there are different levels of tumbling with different effects is something a lot of people dont comprehend.
Also in some cases there is no original glass surface left to preserve.
Not sure how I would categorize tumbling, it ranges from simple cleaning/polishing to heavy modification.

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Post #: 10
RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 4:28:45 PM   
Wheelah23


Posts: 4296
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Glen Ridge, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I've never seen a well tumbled bottle. That doesn't mean they don't exist, but I've only seen overtumbled ones. In fact, this week I bought a bottle on eBay, only to find out upon closer inspection that it's tumbled. Luckily the seller has been cooperative. They got it from someone else, so that person must've tumbled it. I've returned it now.

Then again, by my logic, if a bottle has been tumbled well, I shouldn't be able to tell... Until I see proof a bottle can be tumbled without ruining it, I won't believe it's possible.

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RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 4:45:06 PM   
AntiqueMeds

 

Posts: 2032
Joined: 3/6/2009
From: Frederick, MD.
Status: offline 		soap and water is good enough for some folks. more power to them.

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Post #: 12
RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 5:18:58 PM   
diggerdirect


Posts: 275
Joined: 5/2/2010
From: New York State
Status: offline
quote:

... Until I see proof a bottle can be tumbled without ruining it, I won't believe it's possible.



It would all depend on ones definition of 'ruined'.

If increased displayability, desireability and ultimately value across a broader range of collectors is considered ruined then...

Until a 'secret method' (of which I noticed that thread has been took down?) or other non destructive technique is available as general knowledge I dont see the practice being halted, whether right or wrong.

Dont get me wrong, I certainly wouldnt try and defend an over tumbled bottle, its a shame. Even tho we each consider ourselves the 'owners' of these glass treasures, and rightly so, we are, at best just temporary custodians in the scheme of things.

Al

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Post #: 13
RE: Please Help! Question about tumbled bottle. - 2/3/2012 7:12:30 PM   
Wheelah23


Posts: 4296
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Glen Ridge, New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: diggerdirect

Even tho we each consider ourselves the 'owners' of these glass treasures, and rightly so, we are, at best just temporary custodians in the scheme of things.



Exactly my reasoning. Why do something irreversible and ultimately destructive to the glass, rather than just leave it alone for now? If a nondestructive cleaning method were to come to light, years from now, there'd be no hope for all the tumbled bottles. But any bottles that remain sick, could be fixed up in a relative jiffy. I won't argue that tumbling increases displayability and value. But I collect bottles for their history, which I think is altered by tumbling.

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Post #: 14
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