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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base

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Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/26/2006 9:35:23 PM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline Stumper.  I've been led to believe pontil bases are not embossed.  I have a teal green umbrella ink embossed near the pontil mark S I.  I wonder if it could be an early Senate Ink company production.  Any ideas? Post #: 1

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/26/2006 11:10:50 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Pontil marked bases were rarely embossed but I have seen at least a half dozen that were. People that say they were not just havent run across any. Are you sure its not a 51? Can you post a photo, sounds interesting. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/26/2006 11:12:23 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to falconer) Post #: 2

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/26/2006 11:13:37 PM    PhilaBottles Posts: 1003 Joined: 9/25/2005 From: philad.A Status: offline i have a broken aqua umbrella pontiled. it has a "Z" or a funny looking "N" embossed close to the pontil scar. im thinking mold marking. like a mold number, but its a letter. does your "SI" mark look like the one on this bottle? sorry...hard to see. (in reply to falconer) Post #: 3

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/27/2006 8:30:38 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Mold 'numbers' were sometimes letters, look at mason jars for instance. The I could be roman numeral 1 too. Your photo looks like a barrel ink, was it supposed to be a cone? _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to PhilaBottles) Post #: 4

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/27/2006 3:29:04 PM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline I will attempt to get clear photos and post ASAP.  Thanks always for the great input. Falconer (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 5

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/27/2006 10:33:24 PM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline THE PICS Attachment (1) (in reply to falconer) Post #: 6

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/27/2006 10:34:17 PM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline Another Attachment (1) (in reply to falconer) Post #: 7

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/28/2006 8:17:34 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline The letters/numbers appear to have been added to the mold one at a time so my guess is its a mold number. Maybe some ink experts know more. It certainly makes it more interesting than a plain umbrella. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/28/2006 8:21:41 AM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to falconer) Post #: 8

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/28/2006 6:39:35 PM    tazmainiendigger Posts: 973 Joined: 11/21/2003 From: State O Maine Status: offline Ron I checked for your ink in Bill Covill's book there are two that caught my eye C-127 umbrella (aqua) is base embossed S 1 also     C-129  Is a blue-green  umbreall base emb. S111 I bet Matt is right with the mold #         Taz (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 9

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/30/2006 1:37:49 PM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline Thanks Gents.  So what was the purpose of this type of mould mark?  Ae they rare? (in reply to falconer) Post #: 10

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/30/2006 5:45:28 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I've never heard a definitive answer but there are a number of reasons that come to mind. If you have many glass blowers and they are getting paid peice work it lets you know how many units each man produced. It allows you to tell which mold needs serviced (cleaning , cracks, wear, etc). It could be the part number for the mold as ordered from a catalog. I'd be interested if anyone has any better theories. _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to falconer) Post #: 11

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 9/30/2006 11:09:17 PM    capsoda Posts: 7869 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline I agree with Matt. Most pontiled bottles with embossing on the bottom came late in the pontil era and the embossing was either simple [Mold #] or very elaborate. I have seen a few inks with mold marks and some wine and whiskey bottle with mold marks or company names and addresses.  < Message edited by capsoda -- 9/30/2006 11:11:18 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 12

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 12:02:33 PM    KentOhio   Posts: 730 Joined: 9/13/2004 Status: offline I disagree. SI has got to stand for Something Ink, be it Senate, Sanford or Stafford. (in reply to falconer) Post #: 13

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 1:15:01 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Its possible, just find one with a label and that may remove any doubts. Let me see what other photos I can dig up of pontil marked bottles with bottom embossing. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 10/2/2006 1:27:52 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to KentOhio) Post #: 14

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 1:23:53 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Here is a Davis Vegetable Pain Killer with an 'E' on base. It looks like it was crudely chisled on the mold. I would guess as some sort of ID for the mold. Attachment (1) < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 10/2/2006 1:25:46 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 15

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 1:42:35 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I dont know about inks but I have to say pontil medices with bottom embossing are pretty durn rare. Holst lists a... DR. OWEN'S / EUROPEAN // f // LIFE BITTERS / DETROIT // f "5" on Base, Said to Be a Mark of the Lancaster, NY Glassworks   How they figured out a 5 means that , I dont know. But bottom marks on early bottles are often glasshouse marks (more common on flasks and other bottle types). _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 16

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 2:11:31 PM    cowseatmaize Posts: 2135 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Metro West, MA Status: offline Hey, I've been guessing this ink about 1820-40. I never got a good pic in all my tries but it's got a big X and what looks like 200 backwards. It's not a one of a kind, I've seen others. Attachment (1) < Message edited by cowseatmaize -- 10/2/2006 2:13:01 PM > _____________________________ My 10¢ worth (inflation) Eric If you love what your doing it might be illegal, so watch your back. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 17

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 4:35:23 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5129 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Thats some odd graffiti. _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to cowseatmaize) Post #: 18

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/2/2006 6:02:23 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1160 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Well I stand corrected and I apologize to who ever I gave the rule of thumb that a pontil scarred bottle would not have base embossment on it! Never too old to learn I guess. Before this thread I had never seen an embossed pontil scarred base. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 19

RE: Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base - 10/8/2006 9:36:32 AM    falconer Posts: 57 Joined: 5/24/2005 From: Wichita, Kansas Status: offline Nice to have generated interest in this mold mark on pontil.  I'm still stumped that with all the pontil specimens out there why are so few marked on the base?  You would think if this was relatively easy to do, identification would be the norm. (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 20

All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> Pontil Teal Green Umbrella Ink with embossing on base

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