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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Historic Glass Bottle Website >> T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottle 1798-1805

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T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottle 17... - 10/5/2010 12:34:13 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Well ,I acquired the Holy Grail of medicines today as this bottle was always rumored to exist and now here it is in attic mint condition.The T W Dyott Approved Family Medicine bottle with a fully intact label.It is a little rough on the edges but not  bad for a label two hundred years old.This bottle did come at a steep price however as I had to let go one of my E G Booz  Whiskey bottles.This was a once in a lifetime find and you cant pass up on an opportunity such as this one.I met this collector  while working in Philadelphia last year and within a half hour we were sharing our love of early Philadelphia and New Jersey bottles. He called me yesterday and wanted to show me his prize possescion.I had brought my Booz bottles over to show him as he had never held one before.He kiddingly tried to straight up trade a Drakes then an Indian Queen and then finally a Dr. Fisch's Bitters for a Booz bottle.It was when I showed him my recently acquired T. W. Dyott Dr Robertson Family Medicine bottle that he broke out the paper label version he owned. I was floored and immediately offered him a Booz of his choice for the Paper labled bottle.Thinking he was going to say no did not happen in fact he pointed right at the Booz bottle he liked the most and said THIS ONE.I thought he was kidding again but I could then tell he was not.For a second I looked at my Booz bottles and couldn't stand the thought of someone else owing one of them but then I had a reality check and said YES.I have to admit it was tough letting go of an Original Booz bottle in great condition,but like I had said earlier these opportunities do not come along to often if not at all!! Dr. Dyott's arrival into Philadelphia was the Spring of 1796 .The next year he was selling from a basement Blacking bottles  and did well enough that the following year in 1798 he was selling Dr. Robertson's Family Medicines.There was always  speculation as to Dyott's first Dr. Robertson's Family Medicine bottles as they were thought to be square. This is probably the best feeling about a bottle I have ever had.The bottle came from an 80 year old  private collector in  Philadelphia and was given to him by his Grandfather who received it from his great Grandfather who worked for Dyott  at his warehouse at Second and Race Streets in Philadelphia in 1830.The bottle was blown at the Heston Carpenter Glassworks  of Glassboro New Jersey.It is a pretty shade of early New Jersey green.The bottle is 5 and 5/8ths inches tall by 1 and 1/2 wide. It has a deep indented pontil with a diagonally running seam.The mouth of the bottle is wide at 1 inch.The glass is in mint  condition for a two hundred year old bottle.How many times do we as collectors say this is my best bottle............ well this one  REALLY is as I am pretty certain that it is the only recorded version of Dyott's first bottle.I feel as though my collection is now complete as I have little desire to top this one.I would really like to hear some feed back from Guntherhess,Mike George,Jeff Noordsy Red Matthews or anyone else that collects early medicines.I really do value everyone's opinion here at he forum. Here it is pictured with the 1806 to 1815 embossed version that is also ultra rare. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen Post #: 1

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:34:48 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture number 2 Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 2

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:35:39 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture number 3 Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 3

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:36:44 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture Number 4 Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 4

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:37:52 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture number 5 Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 5

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:38:46 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture number 6 Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 6

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:40:54 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Picture number 7, The two bottoms of the bottles side by side as for a comparison of liquid content in each. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 7

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:50:29 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline The embossed version of the bottle was the United States first embossed medicine bottle.The question needs to be asked Is this one one of the United States first medicine bottles period!!What I can tell you I learned from the experience is dont be afraid to talk to anyone at any time and be passionate about what ever endevors you involve yourself in.Being friendly and helpfull and enthusiastic about everything everyday will open a lot more doors in life then being down trodden and always complaining about everything.This is a really neat bottle I have had a hard time putting down all day.  _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 8

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:51:29 AM    JOETHECROW Posts: 9807 Joined: 9/3/2005 From: Northwestern Pa. (Near scenic Lake Perfidy) Status: offline Pretty serious aquisition Steve,....Not sure what to say about it except Congratulations! Sure is old. _____________________________ Joe ``````````````````````````````````` In the woods we return to reason and faith. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTyuRd9zSg&feature=related (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 9

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 12:57:20 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Thanks Joe, its been an emotional  roller coaster for me the last week and a half.My son was having health issues and we couldnt figure out what was causing them.This bottle really belongs in the Corning museum not my house and thats where it will go when I leave this earth. One other thing I would like to add,I can swear the bottle rings like it is made of flint glass.The Heston and Carpenter works were big on Flint glass and Flint glass can come in colors other then pure white (clear).The walls of the bottle are also extremely thin. < Message edited by Steve/sewell -- 10/5/2010 1:00:36 AM > _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to JOETHECROW) Post #: 10

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 1:34:32 AM    JOETHECROW Posts: 9807 Joined: 9/3/2005 From: Northwestern Pa. (Near scenic Lake Perfidy) Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell Being friendly and helpfull and enthusiastic about everything everyday will open a lot more doors in life then being down trodden and always complaining about everything. This is a really neat bottle I have had a hard time putting down all day.  I agree wholeheartedly on both counts Steve,...just don't wear that label out.... _____________________________ Joe ``````````````````````````````````` In the woods we return to reason and faith. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTyuRd9zSg&feature=related (in reply to Steve/sewell) Post #: 11

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 8:47:34 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I have to say unembossed labled bottles scare the heck out of me. The bottle form seems right. Do you think the label originally wrapped around the bottle? It looks like there was more text? The label looks incredibly well preserved for a bottle of its age. As an early labled Dyott bottle it would certianly be a museum piece. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to JOETHECROW) Post #: 12

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 10:04:47 AM    cowseatmaize Posts: 6472 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Eastern Northwest West Central area of Mass Status: offline Hi, I really hope I'm wrong but hear me out. Aside from the reasons Matt said there are a couple other things I'm unsure of. One is that it doesn't state which medicine, he had more that one. The second is that it looks like a clip from and old ad he had. if you read this you will notice that it looks word for word as the start to the ad. The rest looks clipped off. http://www.manheim1762.org/files/One_Stop_Shopping2.pdf Again and I hope the experts prove me wrong but if I'm not, I hope you can get your EG back. _____________________________ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati Eric (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 13

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 10:15:47 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline This was the newspaper ad in 1824... Attachment (1) _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to cowseatmaize) Post #: 14

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 10:22:47 AM    saratogadriver   Posts: 622 Joined: 9/10/2009 Status: offline It does look to me like there's more writing below Edinborough, which has been cut off, or the label wore off... Jim G (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 15

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 10:32:04 AM    Poison_Us Posts: 2954 Joined: 5/27/2009 From: Savannah, Ga. Status: offline What a hard trade that must have been. I notice at the top of the label, it would have been some kind of artwork, how far it went, nobody knows (obviously). The bottom of the label, however, seems to be missing some lettering (you can see just some tops of it), but the label is cleanly cut.  Now this could be a mis-print where the paper was not completely in line with the press, but it shouldn't end with "Edinburgh," Clearly there is at least a line of text missing.  Just seems odd.  But I'm no expert on the acceptable tolerances of early 19th century printing. _____________________________ Poison Us Member: APBCA ( www.poisonbottleclub.org ) Visit Us @: www.poisonousaddiction.com Looking for digging partners in/near Savannah. Be a friend. Give the "GIFT" of Poison. (in reply to cowseatmaize) Post #: 16

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 11:00:42 AM    cyberdigger Posts: 12319 Joined: 11/29/2008 From: I 195 @ US 9, NJ USA Status: offline I don't get this at all.. the label really seems to be snipped right out of a newspaper, but Steve is way too observant to be duped by something so obvious.. I think I'm gonna put on my flak jacket and watch this thread from minimum safe distance.. (in reply to Poison_Us) Post #: 17

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 11:23:17 AM    Road Dog Posts: 2792 Joined: 6/9/2005 From: Clayton, North Carolina Status: offline My thinking too Cyber. (in reply to cyberdigger) Post #: 18

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 11:26:31 AM    Steve/sewell Posts: 4295 Joined: 1/23/2010 Status: offline Matt the label is made of cotton rag fiber which is consistent with the time period.I have compared it to Newspaers from the same era and they are almost the same except the label has a sheen to it where the newspaper seems more pourous.It even smells the same as an old newspaper from the late 1700s.As for the missing text there was something attached to the upper portion when viewing the picture,whether or not it was a border or more text which wrapped to the next panel is a good question.The bottle was kept in an old gun cabinet with other bottles.The cabinet had a musty smell to it but the smell on the label was different then the smell I remembered when he opened the cabinet door.It has been documented that Dyotts first bottles were square.This bottle has never seen a harsh environment whatsoever.Its very believable to me that this bottle is an original. I know my Jersey glass quite well and I am completely confident that the bottle came from Glassboro based on color mostly,but also the type of lip on the bottle matches examples from the same time period. Eric I see your point but you have to remember vitually all of his advertisments said about the same thing in all of his early newspaper ads.I own 16 newspapers with various ads from Dyott.The font being different in size and style.The section in the newspapers where he describes his Family medicines is using the exact same verbage as the label on the bottle.The difference between the two is the font size and the paper is of a slightly different color and as I said earlier has a sheen to it.This was how he advertised and if the same printers who printed the newspaper ads printed the labels then the type press would be the same.Why would he go to a diffrent printer then one he had an established relationship with through his early advertisments in Newspapers.It is a tough call and I am as skeptile as all of you but I went with my gut feeling.I will continue to research this in the coming days and later I will show you more advertisments later today as now I am late for an appointment _____________________________ Auf Wiedersehen (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 19

RE: T. W. Dyott, His first paper labeled medicine bottl... - 10/5/2010 11:47:17 AM    cowseatmaize Posts: 6472 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Eastern Northwest West Central area of Mass Status: offline I'd like for us to not respond to this for at least a while. If we're correct it only rubbing salt in a wound. Of coarse that's just my thought but I'm heart broken now, I can't imagine what Steve is thinking. Eric Let's keep it available for Mike, Jeff and any other experts (I'm not one), especially those that may be knowledgeable in the use of paper labels during the time period to express their thoughts through PM's if they wish. I know this seams against open forum but if Steve took such a hit he doesn't need to have the constant reminder. I'm still hoping that, at the least, someone will come out and say that it may have been common practice to do something like this in 1805 though I'm doubtful. Steve, let us know how it all ends up, We're thinking of you. _____________________________ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati Eric (in reply to Road Dog) Post #: 20

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