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Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 1:30:30 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Things have been a bit slow lately so i thought I'd throw out some useless info for discussion. This is a list of the top priced medicines I have seen sell in the last couple years. I know there are some more valuable ones out there, these are just the ones I can document the values for. As expected they are all colored and all pontilled except for the Swamp Chill Cure.


Bottle Name

Value

Color



LYNCHS CELEBRATED DYSPECTIC CORDIAL

$8,500.00

forest green


I NEWTON'S PANACEA PURIFIER OF THE BLOOD NERWICH V.T.

$9,700.00

olive amber


HOWARD'S VEGETABLE CANCER AND CANKER SYRUP

$10,900.00

amber


DR SWETT'S PANACEA EXETER N.H.

$12,000.00

olive green


THE RIVER SWAMP CHILL AND FEVER CURE AUGUSTA, GA

$12,000.00

olive amber


BARTINE'S LOTION

$15,000.00

amber


G W STONE'S LIQUID CATHARTIC & FAMILY PHYSIC LOWELL MASS

$16,650.00

sapphire


MASURY'S SARSAPARILLA COMPOUND

$17,455.00

light amber


DR PHELPS GENUINE ARCANUM

$23,000.00

dark blue


... Hmm... that was supposed to be an HTML table but the forum message system didnt seem to like it



< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 4/10/2007 1:38:43 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 1:47:25 PM   
#1twin

 

Posts: 334
Joined: 5/25/2006
From: Biloxi Ms
Status: offline 		Matt,  I would first of all like to thank you for all the time and effort you put into your Medicine Pricing CD. It is great and I have enjoyed looking through it. I plan on taking some pictures of some medicines I have, that are not listed on the CD to see if you have any information on them. One for example, would be a clear, BIM, tapered lip Dr. DeWitt's Eclectic Cure. At first glance it is embossed like a Kilmers and roughly 4-5" tall.  Thanks again for the CD. I highly recommend it to any Mecicine/Druggist collector.  Thanks,  Marvin Gill

< Message edited by #1twin -- 4/10/2007 1:48:27 PM >

(in reply to GuntherHess)
Post #: 2
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 2:19:11 PM   
earlyglass

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
Status: online 		Thanks Matt for your information.

I wanted to add a few more off the top of my head....

not including buyers premium...

Wynkoops / gallon size / cobalt    $39,000
Rushton & Aspinwall / honey amber   $14,000
Pike & Osgood / amber  $11,500
the most recent Howards sold for $13,000

I must say some of the best pieces have traded hands privately, and often for higher prices than these auction results. I know of a dozen great medicines that would easily sell for $25,000 or more if they ever came to market.

Mike 

(in reply to #1twin)
Post #: 3
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 2:33:24 PM   
woody

 

Posts: 1657
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From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

I NEWTON'S PANACEA PURIFIER OF THE BLOOD NERWICH V.T.

$9,700.00

olive amber


I actually dug one of these broken about ten years ago here in New hampshire.

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Post #: 4
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 2:56:19 PM   
earlyglass

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
Status: online 		The I. Newtons is one that is on my list. I had an opportunity to buy the one mentioned, and I passed on another as well. I can't see paying so much money, but it may be the only way... if one becomes available again!

Woody, go back to the spot... make sure it is picked well!  :)

Mike

(in reply to woody)
Post #: 5
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 3:09:34 PM   
CALDIGR2

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Those prices come as no surprise to me. All are exceedingly rare and beautifully colored, and the demand is there.

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Dig no privy before it's time.

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Post #: 6
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 3:32:12 PM   
woody

 

Posts: 1657
Joined: 10/29/2002
From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Believe me, Mike. I have!!!

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Woody

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Post #: 7
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 4:01:44 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Yes, a lot of the high end medicines change hands privately and the sellers/buyers dont particularly want others to know what was paid. I can understand the reasons but it makes the job of doing a complete price guide harder. When people have told me what they paid for certain bottles I have always keep thier identities confidential. I welcome any info you all can give me on unlisted items. As I said I know of lots of bottles that arent listed but i've always tried to use examples that I can document the sale prices on. I think I going to have to start adding more estimated values to be more complete. At least I always indicate when values are estimates so people can take those with a grain of salt.

< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 4/10/2007 4:03:56 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 4:13:32 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: earlyglass

Thanks Matt for your information.

I wanted to add a few more off the top of my head....

not including buyers premium...

Wynkoops / gallon size / cobalt    $39,000
Rushton & Aspinwall / honey amber   $14,000
Pike & Osgood / amber  $11,500
the most recent Howards sold for $13,000

I must say some of the best pieces have traded hands privately, and often for higher prices than these auction results. I know of a dozen great medicines that would easily sell for $25,000 or more if they ever came to market.

Mike 



Another I'd like to see sell is...
American Medicinal OIL BURKESVILLE KY in sapphire

The Pike & Osgood  I estimated at $7500 which may be too low. The problem with the high end bottles is each is really unique and will have a different value depending on its own charactor. Maybe a a price range  would make more sense when estimated values are given?

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2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

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(in reply to earlyglass)
Post #: 9
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 4:42:58 PM   
earlyglass

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
Status: online 		Matt, the estimated value of $7500 for the Pike & Osgood is a pretty fair and accurate range. The one that sold for $11,500 had a full label.

Putting values on any of these is very difficult, and I commend you for your efforts. Color, impression, character,  and condition can change the value quite dramatically, sometimes upwards of 50%! A full label on such a rare bottle may put a piece in the "unique" column... then the sky is the limit. The source of purchase is important as well... buying an ex.Greer example from Norm Heckler has a little more weight than buying from an unknown seller on Ebay.

Mike

(in reply to GuntherHess)
Post #: 10
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 5:04:00 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online
quote:

Matt, the estimated value of $7500 for the Pike & Osgood is a pretty fair and accurate range. The one that sold for $11,500 had a full label.

Putting values on any of these is very difficult, and I commend you for your efforts. Color, impression, character, and condition can change the value quite dramatically, sometimes upwards of 50%! A full label on such a rare bottle may put a piece in the "unique" column... then the sky is the limit. The source of purchase is important as well... buying an ex.Greer example from Norm Heckler has a little more weight than buying from an unknown seller on Ebay.


I always give exGreer bottles and bottles with labels thier own separate entries as it can be assumed that they will normally realize higher values. Its the kind of info you dont get in guides like Kovels that is very important to the collector. I'm always interested in what other data collectors want to see.


_____________________________

Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles

2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg

(in reply to earlyglass)
Post #: 11
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 6:07:05 PM   
baltbottles

 

Posts: 919
Joined: 11/25/2002
From: Baltimore Maryland
Status: offline 		You know thats something I've never quite got. Why would you pay a premium for a bottle just because it was part of a well known collection. Its not like every bottle in the Greer collection was the best example known or the only example known. I own several ex Greer pontiled meds and I don't value them any higher then similar examples purchased from other collections. When I buy a bottle I buy it because its one I don't have that I like Not because someone else used to own it. I however can see that Buying from a well known dealer or collector could command a premium because you know that what your told you are buying is exactly what you are buying. There are no surprises and if your not happy you can usually return the bottle. I personally feel pretty comfortable buying from about anyone as long as i have a return privilege and when in doubt about something talk to the seller and ask questions. And if things don't look right they probably arn't so don't buy. Also Know your bottles don't just take the word of the person selling.

Chris

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Post #: 12
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 8:04:01 PM   
earlyglass

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
Status: online 		Chris,

Very good advice, and valid points about paying a premium because of provenance. Many of my friends, as well as myself, could never stand to have those damn stickers on our bottles! However, on the other side of the coin, now I believe there are many reasons to pay a premium for such bottles.

First, you usually can document the piece through the auction catalog. Just like when you are selling a classic car or an 18th century highboy... the more documentation, the better.

Second, when dealing with bottles or flasks that have an extreme rarity value, it is somewhat important to know how many examples do exist. If there are a dozen known examples of a bottle, and a case of them are recently discovered, does the price get cut in half? Documentation ensures that you are buying one of the "known" examples.

Third, your chances of getting a repaired or tampered piece is highly unlikely if it has been in collections for 50 years. Although, that isn't to say that they did not repair bottles back then.

Fourth, the chances of this being a great example is much higher. We have seen that our predecessors who collected these things usually kept the finest examples. They are sometimes SO good that they are refered to "the Richards example" or "the one that McKearin had" and collectors actually know the piece. That is usually a powerful example!

Anyways, those are just my thoughts on why collectors may pay more for provenance.

Mike 

(in reply to baltbottles)
Post #: 13
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/10/2007 9:49:37 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Very good points, and I have to agree with Chris on the 4th point, some of the examples in the Greer collection were pretty poor and sell for more than they should. But for the most part Dr Greer bought the best stuff he could lay his hands on.
One thing that is interesting if you study the Greer sale is certain bottles that were considered very rare back then are now somewhat more common and sell for less than they did back then. Bottle collecting is a dynamic hobby 

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Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles

2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg

(in reply to earlyglass)
Post #: 14
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 1:13:44 AM   
baltbottles

 

Posts: 919
Joined: 11/25/2002
From: Baltimore Maryland
Status: offline 		Those are good points but i still can't see paying a premium for just knowing that your buying one of the known examples. If your spending big bucks on a bottle thats really rare you should have done enough research to know about how many are around in the first place. Otherwise your making an uneducated decision which probably isn't too brite of an idea because you would just be taking the word of the seller that the bottle is rare. Being able to document a bottle through the years dose add some to its history. And granted dose help track the number of known examples. But I still believe that any serious collector should have asked around and gotten many opinions on bottles of value that they are interested in buying to get a good feel for rarity. My general rule is almost nothing is unique. And I tend to believe that for every example that you see at auction there is 2 more sitting in established collections. That may not come up for auction for many years and may change hands privately and never be offered for public sale. I think it really is in the hands of the collector to research the piece and make an educated decision. I will agree however that many of the earlier collectors did acquire many choice condition examples as they had more to choose from. And many of their examples that were still sitting in attics and basements. Before they acquired them. Where as now most of those attic finds have been exhausted and most of the newly discovered examples are being dug. So your right the chance of getting the best possible example is higher and if the bottle truly is the best then its worth the premium. if it not then its just another bottle in my opinion.

Now heres one more question for thought. Can a bottle be too rare? By this i mean that there may only be one or two known examples that never come up for sale and when one dose very few of the major collectors are familiar with it. So many lay off bidding simply because they don't know anything about the bottles rarity. There have been a few things I thought went quite cheap that were very rare and similar bottles that were a bit less rare maybe 5-6 known brought much more money when both bottles were equily impressive. I think for a bottle to truly gain top status as one of the highest priced bottles there have to be at least a few examples around to be contested for. One of a kinds don't have that competition factor because once they are sold and in a collection they are usually gone for awhile. Where as the slightly more common bottle dose have an example sell every few years and more collectors are familiar with the bottle and feel safer bidding.

Chris

< Message edited by baltbottles -- 4/11/2007 1:14:35 AM >

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Post #: 15
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 7:03:30 AM   
earlyglass

 

Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
Status: online 		Chris, 

I fully agree with you that a bottle can be so rare that it is an unknown to most collectors, which ultimately can diminish the value. We all use our reference books and guides to gather information. There are not many collectors who can truly differentiate a bottle from one glasshouse to another, or a pick out a rare mold or rare color without refering back to thier guides. And collectors always strive to collect what they know. We have all seen extremely rare pieces sell for a alot less than than the known rarities. Dealing with the medicine bottles (the origin of this thread)... how many medicine collectors have dreamed about putting a GW Stone on thier shelf? But how much will you pay? $15, 20, 25K. Then a "Wm Carr / Pile Remedy / Patented 1863 / Bath Me." comes out and sells for $3500? Ok, what is? Is it for real? It is probably Stoddard? There are too many questions. But the advanced collector who takes a chance and purchases it will win in the long run. That collector took a chance, now the bottle is documented and referenced, so when it sells again... $20K or more. 

Mike  

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Post #: 16
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 7:09:58 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2422
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Now heres one more question for thought. Can a bottle be too rare? By this i mean that there may only be one or two known examples that never come up for sale and when one dose very few of the major collectors are familiar with it.


That certainly is the case with my USA MD bottle. Too few to register and none selling at auction.
Joel




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Post #: 17
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 7:11:52 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2422
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I NEWTON'S PANACEA PURIFIER OF THE BLOOD NERWICH V.T.


Matt,
Was that a mispelling of Norwich on the bottle or just in your post?
Joel

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Post #: 18
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 8:26:27 AM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5111
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online
quote:

Was that a mispelling of Norwich on the bottle or just in your post?


That should be Norwich, my typo , not the bottle maker.

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Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles

2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg

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Post #: 19
RE: Top 10 meds - 4/11/2007 8:57:19 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2422
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Matt,
It is funny you mention Norwich today as they are in the news up here. It is home to Vermont's military college and they just lost two officers in Iraq. The students are starting to realize the cost of their education and the college is concerned it will lose enrollment.
Joel
ps thought I might as well post my md usa  bottle as well.




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