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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Cleaning and Repairing >> Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray

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Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/9/2005 8:31:55 PM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline Hi - Hoping somebody out there can help me out with this problem. I have been tumbling soda bottles for about two years. About six months ago, I started having a problem with the bottles coming out with a translucent gray coating that cannot be scrubbed off. Apparently the bottle is heating up and the tumbling mixture anneals to the surface of the bottle both inside and out. This only happens when using the "aluminum oxide" polishing compound. It has never happened using the 1200 grit silicone cutter. It seems to happen randomly. I can tumble three bottles at one time, and one bottle may come out with the coating and the other two will be fine. I talked with the tumbler manufacturer and he was familiar with this result, however I don't think his explanation of the cause is correct in my case. He thought it might be the result of a "dry run" (not enough water). This is not the case, I can overfill the canister and still end up with this result. Why didn't this happen in the first 18 months? Why is it happening now? Could it be dirty copper? By the way I'm in Phoenix, AZ and the outside temperature can be brutal - could that possibly have an effect? Has anybody out there ever experienced this problem? If so do you have any suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Note: Incidentally the gray film can be tumbled off and the bottle looks fine, that is if it doesn't happen again. This is driving me "nuts"....Please help. Sincerely - Brent Post #: 1

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/9/2005 11:01:58 PM    tazmainiendigger Posts: 973 Joined: 11/21/2003 From: State O Maine Status: offline Hi Brent, I tumble and have seen this... I think different compositions in glass might have something to do with it.... Have you ever noticed how sometimes the "suds" in the tumbling froth has different colors?? Sometimes a light yellow other times black and inky... I usually wash my bottles out of the tumbler in plain water and then fill them with approx. 25% ammonia, I then scrub the inside with a brush/swab... then pour out the bottle contents on a sponge and rub down the outside... Try it you might be surprized... Taz (in reply to azokie) Post #: 2

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/10/2005 8:50:11 PM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline Hi - Thanks for the information. I have heard from a couple other people that the gray film can be cleaned off with some different solvents. I'm still interested in finding out why this happens. I have noticed some different foam coloration, but again I tumble only soda bottles, so the glass composition does not vary widely. Any other thoughts or ideas are welcome. Thanks - Brent (in reply to azokie) Post #: 3

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/10/2005 11:21:24 PM    thturk Posts: 61 Joined: 9/26/2005 Status: offline I don't know if Arizona has bentonite. But Wyoming has a lot and it has high concentrations of aluminum. If the bottles you are cleaning have a bentonite residue it could be binding with the aluminum oxide. Bentonite resists liquids (water) and with heat could harden on to the glass. Bentonite only succumbs to scrubbing with a brush. We've had our black angus cows fall into bentonite blow holes and when removed have spent almost a year looking like a Charlois. (A white/gray breed of cow.) It's an insidious type of volcanic ash/dirt. I personally hate it. Trish (in reply to azokie) Post #: 4

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/13/2005 10:15:23 AM    Bottle tumbler   Posts: 370 Joined: 4/5/2004 From: Noxen pa Status: offline you may be using to much oxide or cutter if they come out like a gray bottle. I use muratic acid in lots of water and dawn soap to clean mine, I have cut back on my polish to 3/4 tsp and it has help on most of my bottles rick (in reply to azokie) Post #: 5

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/13/2005 10:54:19 PM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline Hi - Thanks for the tips. Right now, I am using about 3/4 tsp. inside the bottle and 1-1/2 tsp. on the outside for a typical soda bottle. Does that sound about right? Hey "Bottle Tumbler" does copper ever get too "old"? Should you keep the copper you use for polishing and the copper for cutting seperated? Does the speed (RPM) make a big difference? Can you tumble a bottle too fast? How many RPM's do you recommend for a typical soda bottle? Any help would be much appreciated. Sincerely - Brent (in reply to azokie) Post #: 6

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/14/2005 2:46:53 PM    Bottleman Posts: 851 Joined: 9/3/2004 From: Central Pennsylvania Status: offline Hello, the amount of oxide you are using for your bottles sounds about right although I use a little less. Copper can get to old and by this I mean the edges get rounded and it will take longer to polish a bottle but will not affect the appearance. I have been using the same copper shot for the last year and a half and I have had no problems with it yet. The speed does make a big difference. You should tumble square or oval bottles around 30-40 RPM’s and round ones around 60 RPM’s. I like to tumble my sodas at 60 but sometimes I think that is a little fast so I will drop it down to 50. DO NOT cut and polish bottles with the same copper. No matter how long you wash the copper, the oxide is still embedded in the copper and will come out on bottles you don’t want to but cut. Hope I answered your question, Tom (in reply to azokie) Post #: 7

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/14/2005 9:29:25 PM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline Thanks Bottleman for the good tips. After a tumble, do you just spray the copper down good with hot water or should I use something else to clean the copper? Keep the tips coming, I'm finally getting some answers here! Thanks - Brent (in reply to azokie) Post #: 8

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/15/2005 12:59:49 AM    Bottleman Posts: 851 Joined: 9/3/2004 From: Central Pennsylvania Status: offline I use a regular kitchen screen and dump the copper in there and run water over it until the water coming out the bottom is clear. Do not add soap because this will stick to the copper and cause foam in your tube which may pop the stopples out. Did you try some of the suggestions above to get the gray film off of your bottles and did they work? ~~Tom (in reply to azokie) Post #: 9

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/15/2005 2:20:32 AM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline I have not tumbled any bottles since posting my querry. Will probably start tumbling some bottles this weekend. I'll cut down on the amount of compound and double check the RPM. I'm going to order new copper just for polishing too. I'm still not sure why the bottles started turning trans. gray, maybe it's a combination of all the above. Thanks for the help. Any other advice is welcome... Sincerely - Brent (in reply to azokie) Post #: 10

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/15/2005 8:14:55 AM    tazmainiendigger Posts: 973 Joined: 11/21/2003 From: State O Maine Status: offline Brent, If you use the 1200 slow cut silicon carbide cutter you have nothing to worry about. After 2 weeks it breaks down to a regular polish. After I use the 1200 cut, I rinse it thourghly till the water runs clear. NO problems, I personally like the "old" copper myself, less micro-chipping till the copper wears in...Have you tried the bottle tumblers forum they might also have some info for you. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bottletumbling/ < Message edited by tazmainiendigger -- 10/15/2005 8:20:10 AM > (in reply to azokie) Post #: 11

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/15/2005 11:00:40 PM    azokie   Posts: 12 Joined: 7/10/2004 From: Goodyear, Arizona Status: offline Yes Taz I have actually run the 1200 grit for 9 or 10 days and the bottle sometimes comes out perfect. I have had no problems with the 1200 grit compound. My problem is only happening when I start with the aluminum oxide polishing compound. Thanks for the link to the yahoo forum - I didn't know it existed. Sincerely - Brent (in reply to azokie) Post #: 12

RE: Tumbled bottles turning translucent gray - 10/15/2005 11:17:28 PM    Bottle tumbler   Posts: 370 Joined: 4/5/2004 From: Noxen pa Status: offline copper is used for the purpose of pushing the oxide against the glass. the edge may help some but I will tell you something. I tumbled a new piece for a friend and it came out frosted and still frosted and on and on this went, I tried putting just a little ribbon of copper in the vase so it would just sit there and not tumble over it's self and it was still frosted inside, the problem was that the slope inside the vase caused me to add the copper so it did tumble over it's self. So what was the answer how was i going to get this piece polished inside. the copper was chipping the glass in very micro flakes and it made it look like frosting. crushed walnuts, no water, no oxide, just crushed walnut shells. you have to buy them from any company that sells them., but they work great on brittle glass and will work on other stuff to. I have tried them on everything but they dont work on the tough stuff. they do work great if you want to put a great final touch on any bottle or jar. and no mess or washing. my point is. the edge on copper does nothing that i know of. i have my same copper from day one. and it's been 3 + years now. keep it seprate that is best. untill you get the hang of washing it with the acid wash, water acid, dawn soap, very little muratic to water and soap soak it for a little while while stirring it, pout out rinse and rinse and rinse. make sure all soap is off or you wil lhave a blow out. ok this is to long of a note. (in reply to azokie) Post #: 13

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