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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> Turn Mold with Pontil?

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Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/14/2008 9:06:45 PM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Hi All, Anyone seen a Turn Mold Bottle with a rough pontil? I picked up one at the flea market today and while researching it I came across a statement made in an article by Bill Lindsey "no pontil scarred examples of a turn-mold have ever been noted by the author." Does this still hold true? Thanks _____________________________ Jeff Post #: 1

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/14/2008 11:51:51 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5448 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline You sure it isnt freeblown? Post a photo, sounds interesting. _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 2

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 6:11:47 AM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Hey Matt. Looks like turn mold to me. I got concentric horizontal rings, and even bubbles that lay horizontal on bottle. The bottle is very symmetrical and evenly proportioned. You can see the bubble in this pic laying horizontal, it is just below the shoulder about in the middle. Let me know what you think. Thanks Attachment (1) < Message edited by jdogrulz -- 9/15/2008 6:13:20 AM > _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 3

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 6:15:17 AM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Here is a better pick of the ribbing. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 4

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 6:16:23 AM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline And the rough pontil Attachment (1) _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 5

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 8:35:22 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 5448 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline yes, those apothecary bottles are an odd case. I'm not sure exactly how they were made, they certainly dont have seams. I believe they were made by glass houses that specialized in lab glass ware that used techniques which were behind the times. For instannce that bottle is pontil marked but it was probably made at a time when little else was.I dont know if they used a paste mold or paddles or what on that one. Most labware was freeblown at that time so my guess is it was freeblown and rounded by hand in some way. Can you tell if the lip was tool formed on the bottle or appplied? _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 6

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 12:09:10 PM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Thanks Matt. Yes odd indeed. The lip is tooled. Does this make this one rare? Could you point me in a direction where I could research this further? Thanks again _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 7

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 12:25:23 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5448 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I wouldnt consider those bottles rare. They often have label under glass labels on them. Does the stopper have a monogram on it?  Not sure where you would research them , you are entering into poorly explored territory You might want to contact Bill and ask him his opinion on them, he might have a better explaination than me, < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/15/2008 12:26:53 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 8

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/15/2008 1:19:34 PM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Thanks again Matt, I will try that. Very interesting to say the least. _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 9

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 9/18/2008 10:25:21 PM    sandchip   Posts: 94 Joined: 9/1/2008 From: georgia Status: offline I've got one just like it, ground mouth but w/o the stopper.  About a foot tall?  Always figured it was freeblown, but you're right;  it does look like a turn mold.  I found another oddball years ago,  a turn mold cylinder with a definitely applied, crown top. (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 10

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 12/7/2008 12:41:02 PM    jdogrulz   Posts: 196 Joined: 8/10/2008 From: Boca Raton, FL Status: offline Just wanted to follow up on this for those of you who are interested. I had contacted Bill Lindsey on this subject and he has since followed up with an article update on the Historic Glass Bottle Website. "Earlier examples (pre-1870) tend to have pontil scars, though reflecting their "specialty" nature, they were apparently produced with pontil scars up until at least the late 19th century. Mouth-blown examples were made in both typical two-piece molds (where the side seams are visible) and in paste or turn-molds (round bottles only) where the side seams were wiped out by the rotation of the bottle in the mold (Bellaire Bottle Company ca. 1905-1910). Click on the following links to view a turn-mold example from the last half of the 19th century that is pontil scarred (photos courtesy of Jeff Browning): Base View showing the glass tipped pontil scar; view of the entire bottle; close-up showing the distinct concentric rings on the lower body indicative of turn-mold manufacture. Due to their specialized nature and relatively low volume production (they were used for years and not discarded unless broken) shop furniture was apparently made by mouth-blown methods much later than most other bottle styles (Whitall Tatum & Co. 1924, 1937)." Here is the link: http://www.sha.org/bottle/medicinal.htm#Druggist,Prescription,Pharmacy and then scroll down to "Shop Furniture" This bottle will be going up soon on Fleabay by the way if your interested. < Message edited by jdogrulz -- 12/7/2008 12:45:26 PM > _____________________________ Jeff (in reply to sandchip) Post #: 11

RE: Turn Mold with Pontil? - 12/7/2008 2:19:51 PM    RED Matthews   Posts: 191 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: offline Hello to all of you,  I have six different bottles of this type - but they are in N.Y. or I would go look at them.  I remember that one has an larger than normal open pontil that I do not think was made with blow-pipe glass.  I think it was made with a disc type punty rod and glass on the edge.  I'm not sure.  I also have two with punty rod glass similar to yours.  And two that I was sure had turn marks.  Another one has an applied glass label in a sunken pannel and side seams. I would like to point out that my interest in what I call Lab Glass goes way back to an early retort.  I also have three Wolffe bottles and I haven't been able to find out much about them   Two have three necks on the top.  The center ones were formed in the molding.  The two side ones were applied - I assume with a lamp-glass workers equipment.  The side ones had the same heavy squared lips on them.  The third one is 10" high and has two top necks applied near the outside of the jar.  Both of them are topped with a squar flanged lip that measures 1-3/8" in diameter.  The jar diameter is 5" at the bottom and 6" at the top.  This one has an rough glass applied punty mark on the bottom.  The top center blowing hole was cut off at the jar top and covered with an 1-1/2" punt or flat seal type of glass.  There are no turn mold or paste mold marks, on the glass there are two seed type of dots randomly placed on the sidewall.  At Thomas Edisons old laboratory in Fort Myers, I saw five three necked Wolffe bottles on his work benches.   Any information apprecieted.  RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to jdogrulz) Post #: 12

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