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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Reproduction bottles and jars. >> U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro

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U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/13/2011 8:47:15 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline This is a classic example of a modern repro of these fine historical bottles. Note (among many things ,the open pontil mark on the base as well as the lack of periods after the USA Hosp The guy states it could be a repop which is good, but then he goes on giving descriptions and literature of TRUE Hosp. bottles researched by our own Mike Russell. Just showing this so people will be on the wary of repro's. Smoke http://cgi.ebay.com/Civil-War-USA-Hospital-Department-Bottle-w-Pontil-NR-/110714105930?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1324252351120012364 Post #: 1

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/13/2011 9:09:21 PM    kungfufighter Posts: 1211 Joined: 2/18/2005 Status: offline Dog River Glass Works at it again! _____________________________ www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com www.noordsyantiques.com (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 2

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/13/2011 9:23:11 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Yep Jeff, and they will fool a lot of people. (in reply to kungfufighter) Post #: 3

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/13/2011 10:05:24 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline yes it appears to be the Dog River repro. The pontil mark is a dead giveaway. I dont think Dog River has been in business for quite a while. As a re-enactment item I could see this going for $100 pretty easy as there doesnt seem to be other sources at this time. Its a realistic looking fake at a distance. It would look good in a federal camp site at Gettysburg. The listing seems to be designed to instill the idea that it MIGHT be authentic. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 7/13/2011 10:07:31 PM > _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 4

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/14/2011 8:46:38 PM    justanolddigger Posts: 434 Joined: 9/16/2008 From: Rapid City MI Status: offline He actually listed this first as authentic and the the top bid was $150 before he ended it. He must have received some feedback about it being a repo. Not sure if he is trying to deceive as much as he just really is hoping it is not a repo, I don't think he really knows for sure. If there had a been a better pontil mark, it would fool a lot of people, thank goodness that mark is a dead giveaway....Bill (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 5

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/14/2011 9:14:03 PM    CWBookAuthor   Posts: 262 Joined: 7/5/2007 Status: offline I guess it's nice to be quoted, but , in this case, the bottle is a repro. Therels little else to be said. Mike _____________________________ Mike Russell, Author of The Collector's Guide to Civil War Bottles (in reply to justanolddigger) Post #: 6

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 6:36:46 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Unbelievable! http://cgi.ebay.com/Civil-War-USA-Hospital-Department-Bottle-w-Pontil-NR-/110714105930?_trksid=p4340.m8&_trkparms=algo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1324252351120012364 (in reply to CWBookAuthor) Post #: 7

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 6:55:03 PM    baltbottles   Posts: 2301 Joined: 11/25/2002 From: Baltimore Maryland Status: offline quote: If there had a been a better pontil mark, it would fool a lot of people If they made these smooth base and got the lip right they would fool a lot more people. I guess its a good thing the company making these doesn't seem to be very knowledgeable about early bottles and how they were made. Chris < Message edited by baltbottles -- 7/17/2011 6:56:33 PM > _____________________________ Please visit my website Antique Bottles Of Baltimore at : www.baltimorebottles.com Looking to buy Pontiled Baltimore bottles of all types Email me at baltimorebottles@gmail.com (in reply to justanolddigger) Post #: 8

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 7:07:55 PM    cobaltbot Posts: 3878 Joined: 4/7/2006 From: Delta, PA Status: offline Do you think re-enactors were willing to pay that much KNOWING it was a repro?  The lack of periods, etc was a dead give away, but I've heard some originals have faint or missing periods, not sure that's true though? _____________________________ My tombstone will read: He went out for a walk and never came back.... (in reply to baltbottles) Post #: 9

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 7:08:08 PM    cobaltbot Posts: 3878 Joined: 4/7/2006 From: Delta, PA Status: offline * < Message edited by cobaltbot -- 7/17/2011 7:10:30 PM > _____________________________ My tombstone will read: He went out for a walk and never came back.... (in reply to baltbottles) Post #: 10

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 8:23:30 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Yes Cobaltbot, that is true. Some of the bottles have very weak periods after the USA Hosp. Especially the ones blown in Baltimore as they were weaker embossed in general. (As opposed to the ones in Philidelphia.) Also if they have been tumbled you can lose the periods. But NO U.S.A. Hosp. Dept bottles have an open pontil mark. Kelley < Message edited by Gunsmoke47 -- 7/17/2011 8:24:34 PM > (in reply to cobaltbot) Post #: 11

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/17/2011 9:05:59 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I find it hard to believe a reenactor would pay that much for a repro but since they are apparently no longer made its possible. But considering an authentic one is only a couple hundred more it seems more like someone just got caught up in thinking it might be real. When the dog river bottles were being made I had heard they were made slightly different than the originals on purpose. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 12

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 7/30/2011 9:25:49 PM    downsouthdiggers   Posts: 111 Joined: 6/15/2011 Status: offline Says biddling ended and highest bid was $350+! (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 13

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 12:00:47 PM    saratogadriver   Posts: 622 Joined: 9/10/2009 Status: offline Good thing the pontil stands out as repro, otherwise many people who don't know the area well would be likely to be confused.  Dog River did or had done some of the nicer repro work that I've ever seen. Jim G (in reply to downsouthdiggers) Post #: 14

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 2:04:46 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline http://www.oocities.org/wrosecrants/HOSPDEPT.HTML old site ad... Dog River erroneously advertised it as correctly having a pontil mark. Other than that they got it pretty close. Glad they are out of business. here is a company that makes some fake items inclusing a labelled Hostetters and mason jars. http://www.carterandjasper.com/groceries.htm < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/1/2011 2:05:48 PM > _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to saratogadriver) Post #: 15

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 3:22:11 PM    justanolddigger Posts: 434 Joined: 9/16/2008 From: Rapid City MI Status: offline the originals also come pontiled, very rare, but they are out there. An open pontil blue one sold in Glass works in 91 for $375, and an iron pontil aqua one sold in the Greer auction for $575. I bought the Greer one, but it came to my house in a hundred pieces, so it no longer exists. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 16

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 3:57:41 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11470 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I have not run across any of the normal quarts that are open pontil marked. There are wide mouth bottles that are iron pontil marked. If you have a photo of a standard quart (narrow mouth) with a pontil mark I would be very interested in seeing it. This site has some examples .. http://medicalantiques.com/civilwar/Civil_War_Articles/U_S_A_hospital_Department_medical_bottles.htm < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/1/2011 3:59:18 PM > _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to justanolddigger) Post #: 17

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 4:08:52 PM    justanolddigger Posts: 434 Joined: 9/16/2008 From: Rapid City MI Status: offline The aqua iron pontil is a jar type. The cobalt blue open pontil has a wide flange lip, I would assume it is not a jar type. I do not have a pic, but perhaps someone with an old Glassworks catalog does. I do think it was a smaller bottle though. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 18

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 7:15:39 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline I am aware of the iron pontil on the aqua jars but I am not aware of an open pontil mark on any U.S.A. Hosp. Dept bottles. I too would love to see a picture of this. It could rewrite a lot of history on these particular bottles. I have a Hosp. bottle that could easily be mistaken for an open pontil mark, but I have never seen a true open pontil mark. This could be interesting. Kelley (in reply to justanolddigger) Post #: 19

RE: U.S.A. Hosp. Dept Repro - 8/1/2011 7:23:05 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1399 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline justandolddigger, did it look anything like this? This is my small flange type lip that could be mistaken for an open pontil. Attachment (1) (in reply to Gunsmoke47) Post #: 20

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