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War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason]

 
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War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/8/2008 6:03:52 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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From: Chinquapin, S.C.
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There has been some debate over the past 5 years why we're there. WMD, assanation attempts on someones father,oil or the war on terror. The actual reason is this. Wartime 7Ups. Yes you've heard of them now here they are. Left Columbia,S.C. 1943 {I Guess it's a three something} Right same place 1948.




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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/8/2008 6:06:57 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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A closer investigation here. No need for House and Senate commities.




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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/8/2008 6:12:38 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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 They don't call them war time bottles  for nothing

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/8/2008 8:45:48 PM   
morbious_fod

 

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Now that makes me think that there are real 7-Up bottles with missing red, because unlike a lot of these "war time" bottles that one shows no sign (that I can spot at this angle) of anything being there before. If someone else had posted these I would be sceptical, but I have found you to be an honest and experianced cat; however, I am still wondering about how widespread this was. Also is there is a chance that this is just an error in the production of the bottle, instead of a war shortage situation?

Nice bottles by the way.

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 12:01:31 AM   
thesodafizz

 

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Perfect timing.....

Last night, I put on my specks and Googled myself silly.  What I finally found after hours of wasted clicking was this: 

Info came from the American Chemical Society's webpage about problems with paint during the war.   To paraphrase it seemed to go like this -

It was as I suspected, a shortage in something used to make paint (just like a shortage of the stuff to make glass clear in WWI).  The article explains that many things were "invented" to get around things they couldn't get during the war.  (Some of the ones I found in this, and other articles, surprised me, but to get on to the point...)   Such as, synthetic rubber was invented because rubber was needed for the military, etc.  Sugar was needed because it was used to  make something else (what, I don't remember now, gunpowder or something weird like that - yeah, I thought too - sugar to make gunpowder?) ...   And it seems they couldn't get flax seed - something used to make linseed oil - a "binder" in paint.  

To quote a part of it:

Shortages affected every corner of life during the war, from women who gave up stockings because silk was unavailable [used for parachutes], to paint manufacturers who were required to ration linseed oil, a common paint binder. These constraints led acceleration in research into new coating concepts. Their chemists took casein, a milk protein used by the ancient Egyptians for making paint, and emulsified (or suspended) varnish in it. They then added a number of other ingredients, with water as the largest component, to create a water-based paint.
This technology led to the development of improved waterborne paints by replacing naturally occurring binders with synthetic ones.

It seems, from the article - which mentioned several major paint company's efforts - that they tried several combinations of things, trying to create a water-based paint (to replace the oil-based) that would hold up.   I would assume, from what it said, there were many trials and errors.  Paint that didn't hold up made it into the market until it was improved.  According to the arrticle, this all went on for some time until the bugs were finally worked out. 

Another quote:

Chemists experimented with old, almost forgotten oils and resins and treated them with modern processing equipment. Purchasing agents combed the country for raw materials so that (paint) shortages would not halt production.

To quote: another section of the article 

The introduction of Kem-Tone© paint in 1941 was the milestone that showed the viability of durable, washable water-based paint and led the way for future improvements. For example, after World War II, the Dow Chemical Company searched for ways to use its styrene-butadiene polymer (40 parts styrene, 60 parts butadiene), which it had developed for tires during the war. The search led Dow to develop styrene-butadiene latex (60 parts styrene, 40 parts butadiene) as a binder in water-borne paints.
Dow's binder helped to create a new Sherwin-Williams product: latex paint. In the late 1940s, the company introduced Super Kem-Tone© paint, which used styrene-butadiene latex as the principal, but not sole, binder. This significantly improved the adhesion and durability of waterborne paints.
Since the 1940s, paints emulsified in water have passed through several additional phases. Styrene-butadiene latex paints yielded to new improvements, such as vinyl acrylic and acrylic latex binders for water-based paints.

This would explain why bottles after the war still have paint that comes off.   According to this - it was the late-40s before they felt they had gotten it worked out (also from the article, partly because linseed oil was available again and was modified be used with the new paint formula into what we now know as latex enamel.

The article is quite detailed and someone that deals with paint might understand it better because it gives the technical side of things, but it gives enough info to at least give an idea what went on - the mad scramble to make paint without linseed oil as a binder to meet demands for it.

Also, red may have been a hard color to work out.   Probably the subject of my next Google attempt.

I hope this helps clear things up a bit to the mystery of fading and peeling paint.  

Comment are very welcome!

K


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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 12:06:39 AM   
thesodafizz

 

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I forgot to say that the article said they couldn't get the flax seed.   Why they couldn't get it (to squeeze out the linseed oil), it didn't say, or where we were getting from that we couldn't get it then either.   If anyone knows, let me know - or I can do some more Googling.

K

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Post #: 6
RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 10:02:57 AM   
cobaltbot


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I'm assuming there's no ghosted paint on yours Pat?  I have one from 35 and you can see where the ghosted red paint used to be.  I've got others somewhere I'll have to check them.

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 12:59:58 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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Ok to be honest, there is a metalic sheen on the 43. However it does not look like the other faded reds from the Red paint White paint post. It allso looks like white was used as a base coat and red painted over that on all the bottles. Another thing is the bottle and the white is cherry. No loss at all to the white. The only way I know to lose paint here in the South is the bottles had been in the dirt. We lose all paints w/ those conditions




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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 1:07:22 PM   
OsiaBoyce


Posts: 1706
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Now here's another twist. The red lable is a 48 [as above]  has the red protected the white underneath? The other is a 41. Maybe 51? It's a one something. The one on the far right is a 56.




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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 1:14:21 PM   
OsiaBoyce


Posts: 1706
Joined: 12/8/2005
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Let us look at them again.




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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/9/2008 1:33:12 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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Here's a solution. I got some rope,we can go Alerbamer, meet up at the old Vickers place and have Terry a party.Headlines will read "Local Man ..............

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 3:04:29 PM   
bamascavenger


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From: Al.
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Let me tell you one thing Pat, It takes a lot to get my goat, but you  are trying very hard, huh? You never know to whom you are speaking with, I am involved in Law Enforcement and I am getting quite tired of your remarks that are leading up to threats to come to my home, including your son!
Please, Please let me know when you are coming and i will reserve a room for you at the Metro Complex! My guest!
P.S. In case you do not get the message....your child like conduct and threats will not be tolerated by us. If you are ever in Huntsville, you might wish to check for warrants.

< Message edited by bamascavenger -- 6/16/2008 3:19:34 PM >


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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 3:41:47 PM   
OsiaBoyce


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Jeez Us H Christ Terry it's a jest.  You know all in fun. To make lite off. To not take things so serious. I can tell you are in law enforcement now w/ no since of humor and "Gotta get to the bottom of this" attitude. I don't know but, I don't think you need me to look like a fool. My son, I think I mentioned he was coming to Huntsville to look for a place to live. He is transferring from Ft. Bragg to what ever fort y'all have down there. In fact he's down there as I type. Do you actually think I'd travel 400+ miles over a disagreement or whatever you think it is over a damn 7Up bottle, come on. You and it  arn't that important to me. Also we did'nt need that little remark about you being in law enforcement. I'm not impressed.   Get a grip and not let this turn into a Rick and Matt thing. Think I'll go burn one now,wanna come Terry?

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 3:58:40 PM   
RICKJJ59W


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Hey now!  I am at peace with my self,and getting along grand with everyone lol It was a Matt thing, not a (Rick) and Matt thing,who's still here? don't bring my name in to your battles. YEAH BOIE!

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 4:15:26 PM   
lobeycat


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Now settle down boyz what's all the ruckus about? As I always suspected, pop bottles will lead to hurt feelings. This place is not the place to be if your humorless. We have got to all lighten up a bit people! Hell half my ancestors where involved in law enforcement, mostly on the wrong side I'm sorry to say. I know a few ossifers, some good some bad. Not all use their positions to influence others but I haven't met one. Lets all relax and listen to the moosic... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHsDa9_HSlA&feature=related

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 4:16:44 PM   
thesodafizz

 

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Rick and Matt thing?   Have I missed something some where along the line?  :)

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 4:34:13 PM   
bamascavenger


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It is not a Matt and Rick thing. Nor is it A TERRY and PAT thing...IT IS A PAT THING! I do have a sense of humor it's just
hard to see. But, when i do not know somebody and they are making threats, even so slight or idle. I take them very serious and i am pro active! Your son, Is at Redstone Arsenal. No Ft. Here. I Too did some chicken rd. runs while at Ft. Bragg! Have a good life nice to have spoke...please leave me be. Do not need any bubbas or head cases in my life right now. Especially one who is off his meds!

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 5:00:54 PM   
woody

 

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I hope you all can try and get along with each other, better.

If you don't want to read someones posts you can use the green button at the bottom left of their post to block that person from your view.

  This is what the green button looks like.

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 5:42:55 PM   
capsoda


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Hey EarLobes, Great selection man. The bros and I did a little sit in at the Brent Ball Park in Pcola with them in the spring of 73. No body knew who the boys from Muscle Shaols were back then but it didn't take long before they took off. It was an unanounced gathering for about 5 hours one Saturday afternoon that got pretty big and caused the consumption of many, many gallons of warm beer and sangria. Landed me a date with one of the best looking girls at Pensacola High School. She was a senior and I was a granulated bumb musician with a pocket full of bucks and a hot rod.

Took the boy to meet the parents and get some real food before we picked up the girls and hit the town for the night. Great times they were.

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RE: War in Iraq: WMD or This [the real reason] - 6/16/2008 5:55:43 PM   
RICKJJ59W


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No you didn't miss much Thesoda.Trust me. 

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