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Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud

 
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All Forums >> [Miscellaneous] >> SCAMS and FRAUDS >> Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud Page: [1]
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Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 6:01:24 AM   
deepbluedigger

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		This sale is almost certainly a fraud. If anyone knows anyone who might be bidding on it, then it might be an idea to warn them. Item # 130069677775, "Circa 1740 Octagonal English black glass seal".

This bottle sold via eBay a year or so ago, and then re-sold via Glassworks Auctions, going into a very stable long-term collection. Most of the description in this new posting, and all of the photos, are from the old eBay posting. The pictures have been heavily cropped, probably to remove ID / watermarks. The pics are now also hosted on a Nigerian oil companys website!

eBay have, appparently, been warned about this .... ?
Post #: 1
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 7:16:28 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2410
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		How do you know this is a fraud? I am interested because I buy many bottles on ebay and have wondered how would someone know.

Specifically, what led you to believe this Bottle was a replica?

Joel

(in reply to deepbluedigger)
Post #: 2
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 8:45:03 AM   
Road Dog

 

Posts: 769
Joined: 6/9/2005
Status: offline 		Real Fishy! Bank Tranfer only. Bid Price is in pounds. Item location is New York?

(in reply to epgorge)
Post #: 3
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 10:02:37 AM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 4901
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

130069677775


There were quite a few red flags on that one... the wire tansfer, the private action, the seller had no feedback for the last 2 years, the seller didnt normally sell items of that type, the photo hosting web site...do I need to go on?


Thanks for heads up on this!!

_____________________________

Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles

2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg

(in reply to Road Dog)
Post #: 4
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 12:15:16 PM   
deepbluedigger

 

Posts: 221
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Yorkshire, England
Status: offline
quote:

This bottle sold via eBay a year or so ago, and then re-sold via Glassworks Auctions, going into a very stable long-term collection. Most of the description in this new posting, and all of the photos, are from the old eBay posting. The pictures have been heavily cropped, probably to remove ID / watermarks. The pics are now also hosted on a Nigerian oil companys website!

ORIGINAL: epgorge

How do you know this is a fraud? I am interested because I buy many bottles on ebay and have wondered how would someone know.

Specifically, what led you to believe this Bottle was a replica?

Joel


It's not that the bottle is a replica. It's that the photos and description appear to have been stolen from an old eBay sale and re-used by someone who does not have the bottle in their posession, and never has had. The specific reasons that this is probably true are in italics above, plus the ones mentioned by the other forum members. I had the benefit of having seen this bottle in the original eBay sale a year or more ago, and also knowing it had been re-sold via Glassworks. There has been extensive discussion of this sale on the British bottle forum, including the guy who bought it from Glassworks.

It seems to be a case of eBay account hijacking, coupled with someone who saved all the details of the original sale. This happens from time to time with high value items.

I was caught up in one myself a couple of years ago. The pontiled Schweppes torpedo I've put up in the 'Bottles for sale' thread came from eBay. One of the underbidders was a friend of mine here in the UK (although neither of us knew the others ebay user name at that time, so we didn't know we were bidding against each other).

I paid for the bottle, which was from a UK source, and within 2 days the friend of mine was offered a 'second chance' on the same item, saying the 'original eBay winner had failed to pay'. The friend emailed me via eBay to check if this was true, and then we figured out that we knew each other.

Eventually it turned out that someone in eastern Europe had spotted the high value sale, and somehow hijacked the sellers eBay account to try to defraud my friend into paying for a bottle that was already on it's way to me!

Can't be too careful with eBay. There are numerous ways criminals can and do work frauds on eBay, and there are lots of tell-tale signs to look out for, as described in various posts above. eBay are generally, in my experience, extremely reluctant to act against the fraudulent sales. The sale above was reported to eBay as fraudulent by at least two people including me, but they didn't do anything about it. The new eBay policy of hiding bidders IDs means that even other ebay users can  no longer warn bidders about this kind of problem.

< Message edited by deepbluedigger -- 1/21/2007 12:17:57 PM >

(in reply to epgorge)
Post #: 5
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/21/2007 1:20:05 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 4901
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline 		This has happened several times with high dollar bottles. Its good collectors are policing sales.
As far as account stealing goes...if you ever wondered why people send all those fake ebay phishing emails ... now you know.
Fortuately, bottle sales is a hard catagory for thieves to venture into and they prefer to stay in stuff like laptops and jewelry sales for the most part. 

_____________________________

Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles

2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM
http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm

email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg

(in reply to deepbluedigger)
Post #: 6
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/22/2007 9:55:58 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2410
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks! It has been an education. Here is a bottle I was duped into buying by an unscrupulous individual. I paid $98 for it.
Ep

(in reply to GuntherHess)
Post #: 7
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/22/2007 9:57:30 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2410
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		ooops




Attachment (1)

(in reply to epgorge)
Post #: 8
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/22/2007 10:03:19 AM   
epgorge


Posts: 2410
Joined: 12/29/2006
Status: offline 		This fellow, when contacted, told me to put his info out there and sell it, as there were many I outbid and they would bid again.

I informed him I would eat the $98 (I am not a rich man) rather than stoop to his level. I have the repro sittin atop my collection as a reminder of what can happen and how easily it is to (commercially) reduce one's own level of self resepct.

Ep

(in reply to epgorge)
Post #: 9
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/22/2007 10:24:13 AM   
cc6pack

 

Posts: 509
Joined: 7/12/2003
From: Mableton, Ga.
Status: offline 		Another good way to help determine if the bottle or whatever the item is a fraud, is to ask for a differrent view of the item than which they have pictured.  Very few scammers will send additonal pics. They always have and excuse. You hear I'm selling it for a friend, my camera is broke, never get a response. I had one guy tell me he didn't have  the (happened to be a card) item in his hands. That's a real good indication.

Don't know how many of you have heare of Lagos, Nigeria but check out the link below. Anything coming out of Africa is to be suspect, along with a few other countries, Russia, and some of the old satellites. Don't click on any of the links in the reproduced emails. Be advised you will a lot of time on your hands to go through the site.

http://www.bustedupcowgirl.com/scampage.html

(in reply to epgorge)
Post #: 10
RE: Warning! Anyone bidding on this? It's a fraud - 1/22/2007 1:32:57 PM   
southern Maine diver


Posts: 1436
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: South Berwick, Maine USA
Status: offline 		DeepBluedigger & Guntherhess

Hey Jerry & Matt...

This attempted theft via use of high dollar bottles on E-bay,  happened to me as well, only I had the bottle and someone hijacked the photos and description and attempted to sell it to the second and third highest bidder!!!

I had (and still do have in my physical possession) an extremly rare Stoddard bottle, vertically embossed Haydens, honey amber with a tint of yellow, open pontiled, wide flared, inward rolled lip, 1830ish. I wanted to sell on E-bay. I let my friend take photos of it and list it in his Ebay sales. I knew the bottle was a good one, so I put a high reserve on the bottle and the offers got up to a little over $4700.00

I did not sell the bottle, but several days later I got called from my friend informing me that the bottle had been offered to the second highest bidder and he had recieved an e-mail asking why the first bidder did not buy it!

Anyway, most of the high bidders were warned about this (that I know of) because we had the list of bidders. Now I guess we'll be unable to do this because of the new bidding format...

To make a long story short, I tried putting the bottle back up on E-bay and now everyone was afraid to bid on it because they thought they were being "scammed" again!  The bottle is still up for sale, but I don't want to put it up on E-bay and it didn't get as high as I thought it would have in the BAM galleria auction.  I still want to sell the bottle but now,  it has a "Bad Reputation" . This E-bay scam has hurt all of us in a number of ways...

Live and learn...

Wayne

< Message edited by southern Maine diver -- 1/22/2007 1:33:04 PM >

(in reply to cc6pack)
Post #: 11
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