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What's the good word on this lid?

 
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What's the good word on this lid? - 5/19/2009 12:44:49 PM   
andy g

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: Washington, DC & Sing Sing, NY
Status: offline 		Any ideas about rarity, specific date range, or anything else?  We found this in a NYC privy a couple of week's ago hugging the wall where it, thankfully, had not been dipped out by the honey dippers in the late 1860s or early 1870s.

Thanks much for any help.




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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/19/2009 12:54:05 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 9192
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline 		Nice historic lid. I have seen a few of them.
Thomas Worsley is mentioned in this 1867 doc as being on 114 Arch St.
Est'd in 1846.

http://books.google.com/books?id=LXGNmx_ii68C&pg=PA557&lpg=PA557&dq=%22worsley%22+philadelphia+perfume&source=bl&ots=vUxT9gVQzJ&sig=CfFMSK8rlFFdESG5kbxdIGupH5o&hl=en&ei=d-MSSsn3H8-EtwfouuyUBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1


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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/19/2009 12:57:40 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 9192
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline 		You can prob also use the image of the capital dome to help date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol_dome

Your lid appears to show the first earlier dome.
So your lid would date approximately between 1846 and 1855.
(possibly a little later (1866) if an existing image was used and it was made during the new dome construction)

< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 5/19/2009 1:00:15 PM >

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Email me at :
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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/19/2009 1:04:57 PM   
Gidday


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Nice lid. Probably the most common of the Worsley series. It also comes in purple.

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Post #: 4
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/22/2009 12:01:29 PM   
andy g

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: Washington, DC & Sing Sing, NY
Status: offline 		Thanks much for the comments.  Matt's ****ysis does narrow the timeframe pretty well albeit, as Matt points out, Worsley could have used an antiquated image of the Capitol when he got a batch of potlids made or even used the same transferware engraving for a while so that could extend the life of the (expensive to make) engraving at least a few years too. 

Also, I have the potlid book by Barbara & Sonny Jackson and their information conflicts a bit as to location and rough timing -- suggesting Worsley was at Strawberry Street starting in 1852, Prune Street after 1855, and then Arch Street after 1866. Yes, the Freedley book from 1867 suggests Worsely was in business starting in 1846 at an Arch Street address -- although I think that is an error on Freedley's part. Double-checking my "google library," I found an earlier Freedley book from 1857-59 that says Worsely was at 518 Prune Street in the mid-1850s.  And further checking of various historical directories and other originial sources documents roughly corresponds to the Jackson addresses & dates.

This is probably more than folks wanted to know, but I was hoping to offer up this research in trade for a bit more information from the potlid gurus about rarity, numbers known, where do they show up, etc.  Any takers?

Thanks again,

andy g.

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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/22/2009 1:21:38 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 9192
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

This is probably more than folks wanted to know


no we want to know EVERYTHING, and we are not beyond waterboarding

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http://www.antiquemedicines.com/BottleBook2010.htm

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Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles.

Email me at :
mknapp@antiquemedicines.com

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Post #: 6
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/22/2009 4:35:19 PM   
Gidday


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		These have a great pictorial but are not rare. You will see them offered on ebay every few months. $500 is the most I have seen somebody pay for a black transfer in good condition. Hagenbuch got $650 for his purple example a few years back. Looking for the latter if somebody has a spare.

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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/22/2009 5:02:57 PM   
Stardust


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Status: offline 		very nice pic. thanks for showing.

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[Deleted] - 5/23/2009 7:05:09 PM   
Deleted User
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RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/23/2009 9:59:50 PM   
Dabeel


Posts: 597
Joined: 3/12/2004
From: Baltimore origin, Now Sacramento and L.A
Status: offline 		Where's "Trog" when you need him.......he knows a heck of a lot about potlids

Send him a PM about it,

Doug

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Post #: 10
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/24/2009 12:38:54 AM   
TROG

 

Posts: 416
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: South Australia
Status: offline 		Hi Andy,

This is a very nice lid and has been mentioned is the most common version of the 3 Worsley lids although would still not class this lid as common compared to say Bazins lids. I have seen these sell on ebay for a low of about $350 up to around $800 and in the Hagenbuch auction of March 2000 this version went for $1,000 and the purple print example for $950 + 10% buyers premium on both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: andy g

Any ideas about rarity, specific date range, or anything else?  We found this in a NYC privy a couple of week's ago hugging the wall where it, thankfully, had not been dipped out by the honey dippers in the late 1860s or early 1870s.

Thanks much for any help.






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Post #: 11
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/24/2009 8:17:21 AM   
Gidday


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TROG

I have seen these sell on ebay for a low of about $350 up to around $800



This one’s not Trog with that big crack. The base for these is plain and has negligible impact on value. The historical significance is the transfer shows the Capital Building with its smaller dome. That purple Worsley, lot #228 I had down achieving $650 plus buyers. Apologies if that was incorrect.

< Message edited by Gidday -- 6/7/2009 3:45:26 PM >

(in reply to TROG)
Post #: 12
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/24/2009 9:35:30 AM   
TROG

 

Posts: 416
Joined: 9/27/2004
From: South Australia
Status: offline 		The prices I mentioned that had sold on ebay were for lids that were mint or near mint and not for anything that had major damage ( ie chips cracks etc)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gidday


quote:

ORIGINAL: TROG

I have seen these sell on ebay for a low of about $350 up to around $800



This one’s not Trog with that big crack. The base for these is plain and has negligible impact on value. The historical significance is the transfer shows the Capital Building with its smaller dome. That purple Worsley, lot #228 I had down achieving $650 plus buyers. Apologies if that was incorrect. Is that where you got yours?



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Post #: 13
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 5/24/2009 9:55:47 AM   
Gidday


Posts: 148
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Here is the Capital lid with its bigger brother the Independence Hall.

[image][/image]

< Message edited by Gidday -- 5/25/2009 8:19:37 AM >

(in reply to TROG)
Post #: 14
RE: What's the good word on this lid? - 8/11/2009 11:18:28 PM   
zollickoffer

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 4/30/2009
From: Worcester Mass
Status: offline 		Before we know it we might start throwng pot lids as if they were boomarangs.

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Post #: 15
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