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When is it a poison?

 
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When is it a poison? - 11/2/2011 4:53:08 PM   
bostaurus


Posts: 2299
Joined: 2/17/2009
From: Madison, Wisconsin
Status: offline 		When do you call a bottle a poison bottle? Many that i have seen classified as a poison do not have poison, skull and crossbones or a warning on them. If they are plain (no embossing) do you base it off the stars, ribs or hobnails?
I have picked up a few over the years in collecting apothecary bottles and most do say "not to be taken" or some such thing but others are not so clear.
Many apothecary bottles could probably be considered to have contained poisonous material but they are not poison bottles. One the other hand would probably be considered poison bottles like this one.
Where is the line drawn?




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RE: When is it a poison? - 11/2/2011 4:54:34 PM   
bostaurus


Posts: 2299
Joined: 2/17/2009
From: Madison, Wisconsin
Status: offline 		Then there are the crossovers...I would give my eye-teeth for one of these. Tipper's Thretipene veterinary bottles.




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Post #: 2
RE: When is it a poison? - 11/2/2011 5:27:52 PM   
Dansalata


Posts: 1318
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		dang those ARE NICE!!!

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RE: When is it a poison? - 11/2/2011 6:16:23 PM   
cowseatmaize


Posts: 6472
Joined: 12/2/2004
From: Eastern Northwest West Central area of Mass
Status: offline
quote:

Many apothecary bottles could probably be considered to have contained poisonous material but they are not poison bottles.
Considered poisonous would be the question Melinda. Mercury, arsenic and many other known poisons today were medicines so the line isn't so clear. I've never been convinced that the fancy patterns make it a poison so you can know in the dark either. Maybe it's true but if I lived back then iodine might be in the med cabinet, most other stuff would probably under the kitchen sink or something.
I guess I'm of no help.
As for as collectors go it may be like bitters. Stating it would make it at least more desirable.
My penny.


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RE: When is it a poison? - 11/4/2011 7:15:07 PM   
Poison_Us


Posts: 2954
Joined: 5/27/2009
From: Savannah, Ga.
Status: offline 		Been holding off responding to this..  trying to come up with something other than what I have on our website,  but I really cant.   An excerpt from the Impostors page:

First, lets cover the characteristics of most poison bottles.
1) It’s embossed with words like: Poison, Poisonous, Not To Be Taken, For External Use Only...etc
2) It’s embossed with a skull and crossbones.
3) The bottle is of an odd shape (Coffin, Triangular, Diamond, 5 to 8 sided or Figural).
4) It’s textured (Ribs, Flutes, Hobnails, Diamonds, Stars, Lattice, Bumps or Scallops) on the face and/or edges.
Poisons can have only 1 or any combination of the above. Item 3 is where some bottles can be mis-IDed if it’s the only characteristic it has. Then the proof would have to come from the deciding factor of:
5) It has a label stating it’s a poison in some manner.
This is where some bottles fall short. They have the shape, but no label. Also, color has nothing to do with the contents.  Just because it’s Cobalt or Amber, does not make it a poison by any means.

Now, as mentioned in the COSTARs thread, the Rat and Bug poisons dont follow the normal rules here.( They rely on pictures of bugs and rats to get their contents across to people).  These are generally applied to pharmacy / druggist / chemical bottles. Embalming fluids do follow these rules for the most part, but not necessarily.   There were plenty of Apathacary bottles which had a poisonous content, but they all were the same label under glass, slick cylinder with topper.  Those usually found in chemistry labs and the like, being in the company of "educated" people, who know what they have and how to use them.

< Message edited by Poison_Us -- 11/4/2011 7:16:17 PM >

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RE: When is it a poison? - 11/4/2011 7:41:32 PM   
Wheelah23


Posts: 4300
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Glen Ridge, New Jersey
Status: offline 		Poison, I was actually wondering about a "poison" bottle that I lost on eBay. The bottle may or may not be rare, I don't think alone it would be worth such a large amount. But the label says "POISON" on it. Because of that, I think this bottle appealed to poison collectors and local collectors like me. $120 wasn't enough money to win!

Relevant to the discussion, would you classify this bottle as a poison bottle? Would others? I suspect I was bidding against poison collectors with deeper pockets than I.

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RE: When is it a poison? - 11/5/2011 9:26:46 AM   
Poison_Us


Posts: 2954
Joined: 5/27/2009
From: Savannah, Ga.
Status: offline 		Laudinum is considered a poison much like granulated morphine.  It's a strong narcotic, which if taken incorrectly, will cause an overdose.  Not all Poisons are really poisons...just that they are potent drugs that can kill you at the right amount.  So because of this, they have to be labeled as such in some form.

Now this is an example of something I have issues with about current bottles in the books.  It's druggist/chemist bottle.  Without the label, we would think it's a general purpose bottle that could have had anything that the company produced.  There are no other distinguishing characteristics.  There are several bottles like that in the books.  But I believe that the are there due to the fact that every labeled example had a poison in it.  So it was granted Poison Bottle status.  A great example of this is the KO-45b.  It's just a clear example of the KO-45 (in cobalt) who's embossing very from just the John Wyeth only, to the hobnails only, or both.  The KO-45b only has John Wyeth and Bro Pphil.  But since it's the same mold as the known poison of the cobalt issue, and all the labeled examples did list poison as it's contents, it was grated that status as well.

So...we come back to  this bottle.  If the company placed only poisons in this bottle, with accompanying labels, then yes, by definition it would be considered a poison as nothing else would be been placed in it.  But research would have to be done to see if that is true, as if you find one example of this bottle with a label of something other than what would be a poison, that shoots it down. 

My guess this bottle attracted 2 crowds, and not the necessarily the poison group.  This bottle attracted the illegal drug crowd as much as the local druggist/pharm crowd.  Because it's not listed in our books (as of yet) we have to take it at face value, being the origin of the bottle, and the contents.  Many "slicks" with controlled substances in them still sell well for that crowd.  Or it could be a rare local maker as well.  But as for being given a Poison Bottle status, it will remain on the fence until more proof is discovered.


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Visit Us @: www.poisonousaddiction.com
Looking for digging partners in/near Savannah.

Be a friend. Give the "GIFT" of Poison.

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RE: When is it a poison? - 12/2/2011 1:51:59 PM   
Gromit0299


Posts: 209
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: Collegeville, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bostaurus

When do you call a bottle a poison bottle? Many that i have seen classified as a poison do not have poison, skull and crossbones or a warning on them. If they are plain (no embossing) do you base it off the stars, ribs or hobnails?
I have picked up a few over the years in collecting apothecary bottles and most do say "not to be taken" or some such thing but others are not so clear.
Many apothecary bottles could probably be considered to have contained poisonous material but they are not poison bottles. One the other hand would probably be considered poison bottles like this one.
Where is the line drawn?





Well, you could always lick the inside. That's a sure fire way to find out.
I keed I keed. I just couldn't help being a wisea** today.

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Interested in Philadelphia medicines, infant medicines, local embossed Royersford, PA bottles and poisons.

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Post #: 8
RE: When is it a poison? - 12/2/2011 1:58:48 PM   
RICKJJ59W


Posts: 11906
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Lehigh Valley US of A
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gromit0299


quote:

ORIGINAL: bostaurus

When do you call a bottle a poison bottle? Many that i have seen classified as a poison do not have poison, skull and crossbones or a warning on them. If they are plain (no embossing) do you base it off the stars, ribs or hobnails?
I have picked up a few over the years in collecting apothecary bottles and most do say "not to be taken" or some such thing but others are not so clear.
Many apothecary bottles could probably be considered to have contained poisonous material but they are not poison bottles. One the other hand would probably be considered poison bottles like this one.
Where is the line drawn?





Well, you could always lick the inside. That's a sure fire way to find out.
I keed I keed. I just couldn't help being a wisea** today.


I heard you were a wise azz,I forget who told me that?


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Post #: 9
RE: When is it a poison? - 12/2/2011 4:10:32 PM   
Gromit0299


Posts: 209
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: Collegeville, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RICKJJ59W

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gromit0299


quote:

ORIGINAL: bostaurus

When do you call a bottle a poison bottle? Many that i have seen classified as a poison do not have poison, skull and crossbones or a warning on them. If they are plain (no embossing) do you base it off the stars, ribs or hobnails?
I have picked up a few over the years in collecting apothecary bottles and most do say "not to be taken" or some such thing but others are not so clear.
Many apothecary bottles could probably be considered to have contained poisonous material but they are not poison bottles. One the other hand would probably be considered poison bottles like this one.
Where is the line drawn?





Well, you could always lick the inside. That's a sure fire way to find out.
I keed I keed. I just couldn't help being a wisea** today.


I heard you were a wise azz,I forget who told me that?


Probably me. Or Chris. Or Alan. Or you just figured it out on your own.

_____________________________

Interested in Philadelphia medicines, infant medicines, local embossed Royersford, PA bottles and poisons.

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Post #: 10
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