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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Digging and Finding >> Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys!

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Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/19/2006 7:57:04 PM    ConchDigger   Posts: 39 Joined: 12/18/2006 From: Key West, Florida Status: offline Here's an interesting article that appeared in the local Key West newspaper. I wish I had the aerial photo that accompanied this article, but I don't, so I added my own picture. That's me with Boca Grand in the background - I promise I wasn't digging on the island! I wonder if they were digging for bottles or had found an old treaure map. Boca Grand is an island west of key west. After Hurricane Wilma in 2005 there was alot of talk of bottles exposed on the beaches. I even found a little green Nubian Tea bottle there (in one of the photos from my other post topic "1st dig in Key West"). But, I mean come on...setting up camp and digging in a refuge! Look out man, the Fed's are comin'!!!         Camping, digging on Boca Grande results in arrests - 09/13/2006Back to Search Results Fermin Fortun, 60, and Fermin Fortun, Jr., 39, both of Tavernier, were arraigned last week on charges of destruction of federal property, trespassing, illegally searching for objects of antiquity, and lighting fires within the Key West National Wildlife Refuge. If convicted on all four counts, the two face possible prison sentences of up to 12 years in jail and fines of up to $390,000. According to the Indictment and court records, refuge officers, Fish & Wildlife Service special agents and FWCC investigators and officers began their joint investigation of the defendants shortly after June 19, when the defendants were observed visiting uninhabited Keys within the refuge. By mid-July, the two men had established themselves at an inland campsite on Boca Grande Key and had begun excavation of a site that grew to be approximately eight feet in diameter and ten feet deep. Surveillance by air, from adjacent waters, and by a team of enforcement officers on the key allegedly confirmed the illegal digging. On Aug. 26, agents approached the father and son team, and placed them under arrest. R. Alexander Acosta, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, Eddie McKissick, resident agent in charge, United States Fish & Wildlife Service, Major Jeff Russo, regional commander, Special Protection Area, Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission, and Florida Keys Wildlife Refuge Manager Anne Morkill were all involved in the investigation. Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/19/2006 8:40:14 PM    richf   Posts: 379 Joined: 8/27/2006 From: Weatherly, PA Status: offline Hi Brenda, I have a feeling the feds know something ... The potential must be amazing there! It's hard to even guess what could be hiding in the sand ... Nice photo! Rich (in reply to ConchDigger) Post #: 2

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/19/2006 9:06:07 PM    elmoleaf   Posts: 86 Joined: 9/27/2005 From: Massachusetts Status: offline Seems like there's more to the story. They start digging in "mid-July" and weren't arrested until "August 26th". Why'd the Feds wait so long? To see what these guys would uncover? If they were concerned about protecting the wildlife etc., why didn't the Feds tell the father & son to beat it as soon as the digging started? (in reply to richf) Post #: 3

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/19/2006 11:04:14 PM    capsoda Posts: 7928 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online I can see it now........ Hey Effram have they found the treasure yet. No J Ed, all they have dug up so far is a bunch of craooy bottles. Well crap, Get Friday and Gannon and go pick the bums up...... You bet the stiffs were waiting for them to dig up some treasure. The state and feds get to divide it up and the guy who did all the hard work gets free meal and more hard work ant a fancy fed resort. In Florida and Alabama you are presumed guilty until proven guilty by a jury of folks who already think you are guilty. < Message edited by capsoda -- 12/19/2006 11:09:12 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to elmoleaf) Post #: 4

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 12:39:28 AM    southern Maine diver Posts: 1436 Joined: 8/13/2005 From: South Berwick, Maine USA Status: offline Gee Warren, you sound a little negative there.  Maybe they weren't diggin for treasure at all... maybe they were building a pool or digging a pond or something... Oh well... Hey Brenda, nice photo of you with the dead fish!!!  All we get up here are flounders, stripers and lobster... Got some big clams and muscles here too, but they are hard to hit with a spear!! Wayne (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 5

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 7:54:18 AM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline You'd think with all the drug traffic in the area they wouldn't have the time to harrass a couple of measley bottle diggers. "The World Turned Upside Down" _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to southern Maine diver) Post #: 6

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 8:27:43 AM    ConchDigger   Posts: 39 Joined: 12/18/2006 From: Key West, Florida Status: offline You guys are so funny. Actually, what probably happened is this: They surveil that area constatnly for smugglers of cubans and narcotics as it is a big drop off point. They had probably been aware of it for quite a while, but it didn't fit into the exciting world of migrant smuggler chasing or drug wars...I mean a couple of guys digging a hole - how boring to them. Well, someone probably got on their lazy buts and they were forced to address the issue somehow. Or, maybe they really did want to see what was dug up first! (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 7

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 9:11:28 AM    towhead Posts: 909 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: offline Welcome Brenda!  Very nice picture....the only water I can see around here is frozen, and all the bottles are frozen to the ground too!   _____________________________ J (in reply to ConchDigger) Post #: 8

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 9:35:50 AM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline burrr...which is colder Minn. or Me.? Atleast it's been warm here up til yesterday! _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to towhead) Post #: 9

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 9:44:56 AM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline I was wonderrin'. Can you still be arrested for digging even if you have permission? _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 10

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 11:17:16 AM    ConchDigger   Posts: 39 Joined: 12/18/2006 From: Key West, Florida Status: offline Florida statutory digging restrictions only apply to state lands, historical public lands, and archiological type sites from what I can tell. They are geared towards the artifact hunters who were raping the indian mounds, pirate treasure hunters, etc.  None of our local ordinances address anything more restrictive. I'm a police detective so the last thing I need is my name in the paper too!!!  (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 11

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 12:03:19 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Wouldn'y all digs be archeological by nature. All land is historical to some point also. I can understand the "No Digging" on Public Property though. There will come a time when you will have to have a State Inspector for every hole being dug in this country at the rate we are going though. Then they'll say " Papers Please" _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to ConchDigger) Post #: 12

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 1:20:08 PM    towhead Posts: 909 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: offline Actually Zane, it has been unseasonably warm here in the Twin Ports....mid to upper 30's! _____________________________ J (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 13

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 6:08:31 PM    capsoda Posts: 7928 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online Yea I can see it now Brenda, Headlines  "POLICE DETECTIVE ARRESTED FOR POOPER SCOOPING IN PRIVATE PRIVY" accompanied by a pic of you being draged away in cuffs while desperately grabbing at a couple of pontiled bottles screaming "they are mine, all mine" Hey Zane, Don't give anyone ideas about all land being historical or they will pass an ordanance. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to towhead) Post #: 14

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/20/2006 6:49:07 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Atleast we can still smoke cigs down in our holes...as long as they aren't on public property in Ohio...That's right no digging holes on public property. Geesh, why would anyone get mad about loosening the top layer of dirt? _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 15

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/21/2006 7:51:22 AM    trussin   Posts: 156 Joined: 5/5/2005 Status: offline Hey Z,  in NJ there already is a requirement to have every hole inspected.  "Rolling papers please" - I say.  Southern Fla is too hot for the reasons Brenda said.  Welcome B.  Great shot.  My brother is deputy cheif of police in NYC.  He was the first command officer under the WTC.  God bless All Good Cops everywhere. (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 16

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/21/2006 7:53:04 AM    trussin   Posts: 156 Joined: 5/5/2005 Status: offline Hey B, only joking about the rolling papers thing...just a play on..well you know.  JB in NJ (in reply to trussin) Post #: 17

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/21/2006 1:30:01 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2027 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Well, I can tell you this. I foresee the Price of New Jersey bottles rising disproportionately  and the bottle digging population declining the same way. Just a guess. _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to trussin) Post #: 18

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/21/2006 8:40:18 PM    bttlmark   Posts: 402 Joined: 11/23/2005 From: N.E. Florida Status: offline The St Augustine Florida city ordinance says it's illegal to dig deeper than 2 inches in the historical district & anything 50 yrs or older is a relic. Damn,I'm not far from being a relic. This is the work of the Archeologist who had these laws put into effect. He also ripped off bottles from several of us diggers and is a thief. At least those diggers will go to a fed jail... (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 19

RE: Why NOT to Dig Without Permission in Florida Keys! - 12/23/2006 11:49:03 PM    JGUIS   Posts: 1705 Joined: 3/18/2006 From: New Lexington, OH Status: offline Zane, you'd like it down here.  The bars all said "F" 'em, we're smokin till June 07.  I guess that's when they're gonna start checking places. _____________________________ A pipe gives a wise man time to think, and gives a fool something to stick in his mouth. (in reply to bttlmark) Post #: 20

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