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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> Win bottle with no seams--

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Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/9/2005 4:11:54 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Hi everyone. Another bottle from the cistern on my husband's jobsite. We think it's very old. It is green/black in color. There is no seam on the entire bottle. It has a very deep pontil or rod mark that goes about 2 1/4 inches into the bottom. The center of that deep pontil or rod has a little convex area, the size of a one inch marble. The neck does not have concentric circles on it. Here are some pictures of the bottle and the lip and the bottom. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Janet Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/9/2005 4:14:22 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Here is a picture of the lip. Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 2

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/9/2005 4:16:38 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Here is a picture of the pontil (if that is the correct term . . .) Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 3

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/9/2005 4:34:09 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline Hi Janet! These bottles are a favorite of mine> I have many, different shades and neck finishes. The one you have there is an ale bottle 1880's+ I can't remember at the moment what type of lip it is, I'm sure someone here can. applied ring maybe? There's no seam because it's finished in a paste mold. Which means the bottle is turned in a mold containg a finishing paste to smooth it. There very common and not of great value, but to me there what bottling is all about. If the sun comes out here this month I'll post a pic of one of my favorites. Keep looking! Rich. (in reply to spot34) Post #: 4

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/9/2005 5:17:00 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Hi Rich, Well thanks for the info! I've never heard of the paste mold. Very interesting. Can you point me in the direction of where I can read more about this? Yes, so far I think this is my favorite bottle. Too bad their common. Too bad they aren't worth much, but you're very right--it IS what bottling is about, isn't it. Collecting little pieces of history, really. Am I right or wrong to call the bottom a pontilled bottom? Thanks, Rich! I look forward to seeing a picture of your favorite paste molds. And why ARE they your favorite type of bottle? Is it just the character you're attracted to? Janet (in reply to spot34) Post #: 5

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 10:48:33 AM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline HI Janet , here's some info on the paste mold, it located on a great site that is still under constrution. When it's done it looks like it's going to be great! http://www.blm.gov/historic_bottles/index.htm This is from the glossary section. Turn mold (paste mold) - Refers to a mouth-blown bottle produced in a mold where the bottle is rotated in the mold to erase the mold seams and give the bottle a glossy sheen. Also called a paste mold since the interior mold surface had to have a lubricant added to facilitate the rotation. Both the terms "turn mold" and "paste mold" were used by glassmakers to describe these bottles. Turn mold bottles date at least through the later mouth-blown bottle era as they were still listed as late as 1911 in glass manufacturing catalogs (Putnam 1965). There are no machine-made turn mold bottles to our knowledge. Contrary to the implications of the name, the bottle turned in the mold; the mold did not turn around a stationary bottle. The base of the bottle is refered to as a push up or kick up and is part of the mold. Some people call these a kick up pontil, but technically it's not a pontil. A pontil scar is created when a rod is applied to the base in the lip finishing process of earlier bottles. The lip on your bottle was tooled with a hand held lip tool. Here's a small group I've had for years that fall into your bottle's category. They just have a great sense of history about them, and are st the tail end of a dying art. Now is that far more info than you wanted? Good Hunting, Rich. Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 6

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 10:55:59 AM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 7

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 11:24:30 AM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Dear Rich, Far from being more information than I want--I LOVE hearing about these old bottles. You say it well that they offer a true sense of history and offer us a glance back at something that is gone. Sometimes I look at the windowsill where these bottles are sitting and I find it hard to believe that I'm looking at a piece of glass that was made 100-120 years ago. Makes me wonder about who drank from them, or who used them--what kind of medicine was in them? The pepsin bottles--ha--I imagine someone taking a swig to settle their stomach (though I'm not absolutely sure that's what pepsin was/is for, but I guess it is). I'm a fiction writer and writing teacher and I think one of the reasons I'm attracted to these bottles is that they make me think about stories. Every bottle has a story, really, doesn't it? And looking at these bottles makes me think about how much we take so many simple things for granted in life--but just the amount of skill, the attention to detail, the knowledge that someone had that allowed them to create a single bottle is an interesting thing in itself--someone made that old bottle. So no! Tell me all you want to. I appreciate your knowledge and expertise. Thank you for telling me what you did, and thank you for sharing your pictures. I love that dark glass! It really adds character to a window, doesn't it? I'm going to go and read that website you linked me to. Thanks, Rich. Janet (in reply to spot34) Post #: 8

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 12:13:23 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline I totally agree Janet! Picture the man (most where immigrants) toiling away in the glass shop. Cranking out these bottles one after another for very little pay. Or the mother giving her child a tablespoon of the latest miraculous cure in hopes of easing the bloody cough thats consuming her baby. Indeed, each one does have a tale to tell, more than a few sad I'd bet. Yip, love these things! Rich. (in reply to spot34) Post #: 9

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 12:59:18 PM    kastoo   Posts: 1283 Joined: 9/7/2004 From: Lagrange, GA Status: offline Cool! I never could picture what tooling was! Thanks! Have any pictures of the molds they used? I can't find any on the web. (in reply to lobeycat) Post #: 10

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 2:34:02 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline Old wooden molds are rare. I've seen a few and the prices were a bit out of my range. This is the best i could come up with. Rich. Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 11

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 3:35:44 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline Here's a bit more. took me forever to crop and paste these together Attachment (1) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 12

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/12/2005 3:41:28 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Rich, Great information. I agree with Katsoo that I couldn't picture what tooling actually was, either. Now I can. Making a bottle looked quite labor intensive. It would be neat to see a glass worker today walk through all the different methods of bottle making before the ABM? janet (in reply to spot34) Post #: 13

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/15/2005 3:07:20 PM    WhiteLighting Posts: 485 Joined: 1/21/2004 From: The Electric City,Upstate NY Status: offline Found a few broken bottles like that here in upstate NY,most likley like said from other members either olive oil or maybe a wine/alcohol.... That is a piece of black glass,dates prob 1880's/90's........could be worth a few $$$ also to the right person..... (in reply to spot34) Post #: 14

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/15/2005 5:02:23 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Yeah, it's nice to think about the possibility of a bottle being worth some money, but I don't know . . . I think the trick for me is to just like the bottle for what it is. Although if someone wanted to give me a chunk of money for a bottle, I wouldn't be opposed . . . (in reply to spot34) Post #: 15

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/15/2005 5:11:39 PM    WhiteLighting Posts: 485 Joined: 1/21/2004 From: The Electric City,Upstate NY Status: offline Id keep it also,,,,,but I have a Clear bottle almost like the one you posted,It also has the same type of bottom.............. (in reply to spot34) Post #: 16

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/17/2005 5:40:51 PM    jfcutter Posts: 54 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Beautiful Klamath Falls, Oregon Status: offline Just a quick note here since I see some of the illustrations off my website were used in this thread...which is great!! Love to see people using the website!! If you want to read more about paste/turn molds - and many other aspects of bottle & glassmaking - take a look at the Bureau of Land Mgmts. website entitled "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website." It includes hundreds of pictures and illustrations pertinent to all aspects of historic bottles as well as a lot of information. The site is at the following link: Historic Bottle Website The site is still a work in progress so some of the pages are not remotely completed as yet, but a lot is..... Enjoy! _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 17

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/17/2005 5:52:07 PM    spot34   Posts: 36 Joined: 12/29/2004 Status: offline Dear Bill, Thanks for being such an informational source for all of us. I look forward to visiting your website. Thanks also for the link. I have learned so much just by reading the threads to all the queries and looking at pictures and listening to so many bottle experts. I don't know much myself, but it's nice that bottlers are generous with sharing their knowedge! Janet (in reply to spot34) Post #: 18

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/17/2005 7:30:44 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline jfcutter, I'd like to thank you for the use of the images. I'd did mention the site and posted a link to it in one of the posts above. It looks to be the best bottle info site I've seen on the net. Again, Thank You! Rich. (in reply to spot34) Post #: 19

RE: Win bottle with no seams-- - 1/17/2005 8:13:39 PM    jfcutter Posts: 54 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Beautiful Klamath Falls, Oregon Status: offline Hi Rich.... Oooopps, missed the link in my quick scan through the messages. (I have a bad habit of speed reading emails....). Thanks for mentioning it in your message! I hope lots of people use the site for lots of reasons. And thanks for the compliment on the site....a labour of love. Bill < Message edited by jfcutter -- 1/17/2005 7:10:13 PM > _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to spot34) Post #: 20

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