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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Digging and Finding >> amethyst or irridiated?

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amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 12:42:42 PM    808 50th State   Posts: 55 Joined: 5/14/2007 Status: offline Hi all, I have a question for someone who has knowledge about amethyst milks, can a milk bottle made after 1914 be amethyst in color, I was told that a bottle made after 1914 is irradiated, and  my other question is what can I look for to determine if the bottle is irradiated. Any information will be appreciated, thank you earl  Post #: 1

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 12:51:50 PM    808 50th State   Posts: 55 Joined: 5/14/2007 Status: offline Here some pictures of the milk, it is a Honolulu Dairysmen Milk Attachment (1) (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 2

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 12:56:15 PM    808 50th State   Posts: 55 Joined: 5/14/2007 Status: offline other side of bottle Attachment (1) (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 3

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 2:22:46 PM    lobeycat Posts: 3805 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline nuked...no doubt _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD8XDgVe2EU long lost recipe (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 4

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 7:17:34 PM    pyshodoodle   Posts: 517 Joined: 8/3/2008 From: Lehigh Valley PA Status: online I have a question. I thought glass had to have manganese in it to turn the glass amethyst, even if it is irradiated. How does a bottle older than 1914 become amethyst? I've been finding a lot of SCA glass in one of our dumps. (Of course, it's all broken.) I always thought SCA was always a little less "purple". When you irradiate it, it somehow just doesn't look natural.  But isn't it still glass made before WWI? Still learning. Kate (in reply to lobeycat) Post #: 5

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 8:02:36 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5160 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline the WWI date is just a general date when most of the manganese stopped being used for glass, not a hard and fast rule by any means... UV irradiated amethyst glass can be any intensity of purple depending on the chemical composition of the glass and the amount of exposure.  Anything from a purple tint to a very dark purple. Very dark purples are typically assumed to have been irradiated instead of sun colored just because its hard for a bottle to accumulate that much exposure from the sun while the bottle is outside above ground.  < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/7/2008 8:08:45 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 6

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 8:02:58 PM    citydigger   Posts: 81 Joined: 7/26/2007 Status: offline That thing was fried... (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 7

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 8:42:51 PM    pyshodoodle   Posts: 517 Joined: 8/3/2008 From: Lehigh Valley PA Status: online quote: ORIGINAL: 808 50th State can a milk bottle made after 1914 be amethyst in color, I was told that a bottle made after 1914 is irradiated Thanks Gunther, I think my real question was: Doesn't there need to be manganese in the glass to become amethyst? So, therefore, a bottle made after 1914 with manganese could still be SCA and not necessarily irradiated. Is there a way to turn glass amethyst without manganese in the glass? Kate (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 8

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 8:54:44 PM    appliedlips Posts: 1711 Joined: 1/30/2005 Status: offline      Kate, the presense of manganese is what turns glass purple when exposed to UV.Some glass after 1914 does contain manganese and will turn.Glass without manganese will not turn.Manganese was used to make glass clear extensively in the 1800's and early 1900's.Most of the supply came from Germany which was halted by WW1 causing glass makers to find alternatives.However,manganese does occur in varying amounts,naturally..Some glass will turn by irradiation that would never ever change from the sun.As far as the milk pictured it is probably nuked but some glass can definately turn that dark naturally.Insulators that were on poles,exposed to constant sun have been found darker than that.I am sure bottles that sat in surface dumps in the west could get pretty dark also. _____________________________ I WOULD LIKE TO BUY OR TRADE FOR YOUR COLORED,AND OR EMBOSSED CATHEDRAL PEPPERSAUCE BOTTLES.I AM ALSO LOOKING FOR EMBOSSED MIDWESTERN ALES IN ANY COLOR. (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 9

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 10:02:12 PM    madpaddla Posts: 2805 Joined: 12/29/2005 From: The great state of New England Status: online Most likely nuked.  As Doug said correctly...most dont turn that dark normally.  And the fact that milks, such as yours most likely came after 1920...leads to the fact that it was nuked.  Best of luck on any of your future research.  So if I got a bottle in lets say 1990 and it had some manganese in it...  and someone nuked it ....doesn't make it early 1900 b/c of the presence of manganese.  Sure would like to hear any info you find.  Madpaddla (in reply to appliedlips) Post #: 10

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/7/2008 11:01:04 PM    beendiggin Posts: 797 Joined: 6/30/2005 Status: online Even though we stopped importing manganese from Germany at wartime, we still had a supply of manganese that had yet to be used up. Not sure how much, or when it ran out , but we had some reserves.  Just a sidenote. (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 11

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 3:00:24 AM    808 50th State   Posts: 55 Joined: 5/14/2007 Status: offline Hi, thanks all for you comments, when ever I have a question, I know that I can depend on you all for answer, thanks again (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 12

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 9:31:34 AM    Rockhounder55   Posts: 17 Joined: 7/22/2008 From: Winnemucca, NV. Status: offline Okay, I have to look stupid here. What do you mean by "nuked?" Microwaved? (in reply to 808 50th State) Post #: 13

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 10:03:33 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 5160 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline "Nuked" is a missleading term for most of these bottles. They have been irradiated by short wavelength ultraviolet light, similar to sunlamps. There are some bottles that have been exposed to high energy nuclear radiation but that isnt what we are typically talking about here. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/8/2008 10:04:48 AM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to Rockhounder55) Post #: 14

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 11:45:46 AM    RED Matthews   Posts: 79 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: offline Hello,  This is a sensitive subject to me.  SCA is natural radiation that is integral with the glass batch changing in sun light.  I first got acquainted with this action on a trip to California years ago.  While there I saw a lot of bottles laying on shed roofs and at one road stop I ask the proprietor why they were there.  He told me about it and we examined some bottles that had changed in different degrees of amethyst coloring.  It was intriguing. I read and found out about the manganese used in the glass batch being the cause of this discoloration.  Manganese was added to improve the flow of glass being formed in the molding operations.  The suns ultraviolet rays caused the coloring action..  Since I have retired and increased my glass studies, I encountered "Nuked Glass Bottles".  I still do not know what the change in the glass is from a chemical source thing - but it is irritating to me to think we have to inject such tom-foolery to glass collecting. Well when I posted this, the system added a bunch of answers to your posting.  Now I have to review them and will get back to this in a few minutes.  Well here I am again after reading all the coverage letters.  I must say the coverage was quite complete.  Good reading.  I know that selenium was one chemical that was used in place of the magnesium.  I also know that later ABM milk bottles had some selenium in the batch to make the milk bottle a little pink in reality.  This was a product line cheater to make the housewife think the milk was whiter.  Oh well - someone had to tell! This Forum thing is great!  Thanks    RED Matthews   < Message edited by RED Matthews -- 9/8/2008 12:01:56 PM > (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 15

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 4:08:27 PM    pyshodoodle   Posts: 517 Joined: 8/3/2008 From: Lehigh Valley PA Status: online Found more broken SCA glass today. Brought it home to throw in the rock tumbler. (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 16

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 6:46:09 PM    CALDIGR2   Posts: 528 Joined: 6/20/2005 Status: offline Back in the "good 'ol days" we would find hundreds of purple bottles around the Nevada mining camps. Many were every bit as dark as your milk, including some post-1920 glass. Manganese continued in use as a clarifier for some years after WW1, especially by smaller companies that still made bottles by hand. _____________________________ Mike Dig no privy before it's time. (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 17

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 10:34:15 PM    Rockhounder55   Posts: 17 Joined: 7/22/2008 From: Winnemucca, NV. Status: offline So, are you saying GuntherHess, that these bottles are being "nuked" on purpose to make them more sellable? Is that even a word? (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 18

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/8/2008 11:40:15 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 5160 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline They are being artificially colored to make them more marketable ... or sellable. Near worthless clear bottles can be made purple and sometimes sold. Not saying its right or wrong , just saying its done. For more collectible bottles it doesnt really enhance the value and sometimes decreases the value for a number of reasons. I dont consider it a big issue for bottles.  For fruit jars and insulators where color really matters , artificial coloring is a real problem. < Message edited by GuntherHess -- 9/8/2008 11:42:09 PM > _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to Rockhounder55) Post #: 19

RE: amethyst or irridiated? - 9/9/2008 7:03:26 AM    FloridaDigger   Posts: 55 Joined: 8/21/2008 Status: offline Gunther; ..the milk is definitaly irradiated. I dont believe in the practice; ...my opinion it ruins the collectability of the bottle, ..you might as well throw it up in the air and let it smash on the concrete(not your milk specifically, but in general). I dont buy, sell, trade, collect anything irradiated, ..and those individuals that do, need to stop. Natural SCA is the only way to go..... (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 20

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