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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Historic Glass Bottle Website >> RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information

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RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 11/25/2006 6:06:21 PM    CALDIGR2 Posts: 2156 Joined: 6/20/2005 Status: offline Here is the Goverments welcome to us collectors. The BLM has similar signs posted at various locations throughout the West. I used to enjoy roaming the mountain and desert regions of CA, NV and OR collecting bottles and indian artifacts. Not any longer, thank you. The welcome mat has been removed and replaced with these signs and handcuffs. I will remain HIGHLY suspect of any Federal or State Agency's intentions by supporting a "bottle ID website". Attachment (1) _____________________________ Dig no privy before it's time. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 21

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/24/2007 9:12:25 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Hi all.... Just wanted to note that the Historic Bottle Website is also "mirrored" on my own server (at my own domain!) now in addition to it being on the BLM's.  The one on my server is identical, except that I can - and do - update it whenever I make a change, whereas the BLM server (and the government security hysteria I have to deal with) is updated only about every week or two. It is at this URL on my server:  http://bottleinfo.historicbottles.com I did not comment previously on the comments about the BLM and their anti-collector stance.  Actually, they have no real stance on collectors, but are obligated to follow the laws relative to historic stuff on public lands.  I am a very long term (40 years) collector and prepared the Historic Bottle Website for archaeologists (because they rarely know anything about historic bottles and dating) AND for collectors and the general e-world...since I thought the world needed such a tool.  All of that which comes under the category of "good public relations" is why the BLM let me do it... Bill _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 22

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/25/2007 9:28:23 PM    CALDIGR2 Posts: 2156 Joined: 6/20/2005 Status: offline I also am a 40+ yr digger and collector, specializing in A.P Hotaling and his products. I understand that you are providing a great service and applaud you for it. My comments were actually pointed to the BLM and their anti-collecting attitude. Back in the "good old days" most all USFS, DFG, BLM and other government agencies' employees collected bottles and Indian artifacts. Let em try it nowadays and they can kiss their jobs goodbye. There is something seriously wrong with the picture there. I still get out and dig, but not often on public lands. I have enough permissions lined up on private property to last quite a while, so don't really need to hit the National Forests. It drives the FS personnel mad when they see us happily screening away on the other side of the fence, but at least we are legal. I do not fall for the "lost heritage" line, either. There is nothing to lose in a garbage dump or Indian encampment that has been hunted to death over the years. No "contextual" layers remain to interest archaeologists. Most artifacts are surface finds that have no meaning to archys, so what's the big deal. As a matter of fact it IS entirely legal to surface hunt artifacts on public lands, you just can't break the topsoil with tools is all. _____________________________ Dig no privy before it's time. (in reply to jfcutter) Post #: 23

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/25/2007 11:41:35 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Hi Michael and thanks for the compliments on the website.  It has been a labor of love that will continue indefinitely...more a bit later...  I have to admit that I "cut my teeth" bottle digging with my family as a teenager in the 1960s on USFS lands and in particular, on U.S. Fish & Wildlife refuges in the NW...my dad having worked for that agency for three decades.  He - and our family - were frequently INVITED to dig on these refuges by the managers of them.  Talk about the "good old days."  These days one would indeed be fired (if an employee) or hauled to jail for doing such things that were not only accepted back then but even encouraged.  Ahem.... The Historic Bottle Website (HBW) is officially neutral on the entire issue...it is not my concern directly and the enforcement of antiquities laws decidedly not the point of it or anything I have anything to do with.  It is a "non-partisan" educational tool that I appreciate the BLM (my long term employer, though I am in the rangeland management program and not an archaeologist) allowing me to do it.  However, I have to have some verbiage on the website about ARPA and similar laws...not optional, if you know what I mean.  Regardless of what I think, I for one can certainly not be an advocate for changing the antiquities laws, eh? Doing the HBW has been, without a doubt, the most interesting project (a special project in the twilight of my career) I've been able to work on in my almost 30 years with them...and I've done a lot of cool things with them.  And I thank them for it... I will be retiring this year and bidding the BLM goodbye, though I will still continue to maintain the HBW into the future, though it may not be on the BLM servers much longer.  I'll leave it at that for now... Talk to you later....Bill _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to CALDIGR2) Post #: 24

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/26/2007 12:04:44 AM    earlyglass   Posts: 1067 Joined: 12/21/2004 Status: offline Bill, I just visited your website again. It is truly a great resource. If you ever need to move it, I certainly have some free server space for you. All of your hard work is far too important to let it slip away... these pages can guide many new (and old) collectors for years to come! Thank you for all of your efforts. Mike (in reply to jfcutter) Post #: 25

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/26/2007 8:55:09 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline Thanks Mike...I appreciate the offer.  Fear not, the future of the Historic Bottle Website is assured through several avenues.  It will be at a minimum on my own server space for perpetuity at this link:  http://bottleinfo.historicbottles.com  It is there right now for that matter and will continue to be (as long as I pay my monthly fee...ha).  This "mirror" site is and will continue to be updated the most frequently as I have direct access to my own server, of course, anytime I want.  Everytime I make changes I reload the changes that day. It will also be almost certainly at another location although not on the BLM servers it appears.  The Department of Interior is seriously restructuring their web presence due to continuing (and somewhat hysterical to my mind) security concerns.  Wouldn't want those Russkies (or terrorists) hacking in and altering bottle facts...or something!  There may be a cusory page on the BLM servers directing users to the new/alternative location, but that is not for sure either. Anyway, that and my retirement will necessitate it moving, though the BLM has been very good to me on this overall.  I won't say where it will be going right now since it isn't completed as yet...I'll probably get additional grief for its new location (connected with....archaeologists). Thanks again Mike....and everyone, please continue to use the bottle website.  I will continue to work on it forever, enhancing and expanding it until...well, until I drop I guess.  Stay tuned... Bill Attachment (1) < Message edited by jfcutter -- 1/26/2007 8:56:53 PM > _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to earlyglass) Post #: 26

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/28/2008 1:04:44 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline Hey Bill, Boy is nice to see someone who has taken an interest in the one thing that can link our worlds together, I have a very old bottle that is older than the U.S. it's self, It belonged to "ladislaus the Posthumos" circa 1440, reigning king of solvakia for seventeen years, it was boght up off the bottom of the ocean on the east coast and has taken me around 11 years to authenicate, but now that's done, I need to know about auctions and buyers........What do you think!!!! Roger (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 27

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/28/2008 1:45:21 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Show us a photo. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 28

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/28/2008 2:21:27 PM    jfcutter Posts: 71 Joined: 10/27/2004 From: Klamath Falls, OR. Status: offline I agree with the previous respondent in that nothing can be discussed without a image or two and additional descriptions, as appropriate.  Otherwise there isn't much to talk about....Bill _____________________________ Bill Lindsey - Klamath Falls, OR. Author of the BLM/SHA's "Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website" http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm (...and a collector of American mouth-blown bottles) (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 29

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 12:47:58 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline For GuntherHess and jfcutter, ok here we go! notice from the pics there are no mold marks or seam lines, it has a pung bottom, but no pontil mark, the neck is preformed for a cork installment, (much like a champage bottle), the lip is fire glazed and has a uneven nature to it, the seal on the neck is hot was appiled molten and pressed in, you can actually see which way they appiled it, this seal is very much like the country seal of Hungary, but much older. The crown is Samuel the 1st of russia, there much controversy over how the cross got bent on the top of the Crown,( but this is the identifier that caught my eye), the shield that is on the bottle is from the Pannonion Rennisence, the left side of the shield is Hungary's country crest and the right side of the shield is the crest of Solvakia, this was developed, because Bratislava was the royal city, which at the time was part of Hungary, but now is part of Solvakia, even the per-pale spear that divides the shield matches the pics I have found on that, now let's see if I can get these pics to come up............see what you think.........Roger........O.K., O.K. just give me a couple  of minutes and I'll get back to you........Roger (in reply to jfcutter) Post #: 30

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:09:06 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline It's roger again, now let's try this.... Attachment (1) (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 31

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:10:09 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline another Attachment (1) (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 32

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:11:06 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline the bottom view Attachment (1) (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 33

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:23:22 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Interesting bottle. Not sure its what I would expect in a 15th century bottle. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 34

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:24:56 PM    rhodesroger68   Posts: 6 Joined: 1/19/2008 Status: offline GuntherHess and jfcutter, Chew on this for a while, the last one of the bottom is a bit blurry but you can make it out, If you would like to see the whole package e-mail me your address and I'll send you a complete package on what I have found. The rareness of this intact find is evident, because of where it's from was always being ransacked, burned and pilaged, thru time from wars and invading armies, there are artifacts from this time, but most are broken...........check you later......Roger (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 35

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:44:25 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I agree that a 15th century applied seal bottle would be a rare thing. Can you show us any images of similar bottles in books, museum collections, or other sources? I doubt too many people here have a lot of experience with pre-17th century bottles so you may need to educate us.  _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to rhodesroger68) Post #: 36

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 1:54:12 PM    lobeycat Posts: 6697 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline I'll hedge a little and say this is from the late 19th century....very late. _____________________________ http://youtu.be/YkdOqdpSc0A makes a man cry it does lol. (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 37

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 2:06:28 PM    rlo   Posts: 320 Joined: 12/9/2007 From: the boot heel Status: offline you guys are great! I applaud your tactfulness (?) & knowledge! & you are so dang funny! (in reply to lobeycat) Post #: 38

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 2:30:48 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline I always attempt to be polite but as the respected Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".  It holds just as true for artifacts as it does for UFOs. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to rlo) Post #: 39

RE: Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information - 1/30/2008 2:37:46 PM    lobeycat Posts: 6697 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: offline An image of our lad Lad and his crooked crown....not certain he drank from your bottle, i'd guess not though. Attachment (1) _____________________________ http://youtu.be/YkdOqdpSc0A makes a man cry it does lol. (in reply to rlo) Post #: 40

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