Plumbata
Posts: 74
Joined: 12/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whiskeyman
I think some of you are over-reacting. Bottle digging is WORK...pure & simple. Often it is unrewarding as well. Most people who may initially be moved or inspired to dig will likely abandon their efforts after spending all day digging holes and failing to find any "valuable" bottles...they may not find any at all. It is discouraging.....as all of us are aware.There's fellows who know exactly where I dig and not one of them has bothered to venture in & lift a shovel. In some instances, if not for me taking newbies to dumps here, they'd lie nearly undisturbed for years.In another case, several of us were digging a dump and while the neighbors were interested in our finds...not one of them ran home to get a shovel and not one of them had ever bothered to dig the dump lying practically in their own backyards.
I don't have nearly as much experience, but just in the last year I've had finds I dug up taken when I went back to the car to get water, and I came upon someone digging in my main dump who was tipped off by his young nephew, who was exploring the woods and came upon me, and hoping to spread the love of the hobby I told the kid about what I was doing. Can't even trust children. And here, 1950s dumps are being dug. Sounds like you live in a better and more digger-friendly area to dig, but hopefully future experience will prove me at least somewhat wrong.
quote:
ORIGINAL: whiskeyman
Treasure magazines featuring bottle digging articles have been around for ages. Bottle magazines with digging stories have been published for decades. Bottle shows are heavily advertisied and held allover the world, also for decades. This Forum and others like it can be accessed by millions over the Web.
All this is true, but the core difference between all that you mentioned and this kind of media is that Television disseminates whatever is broadcast to a far wider audience, an audience which doesn't know that this forum, those magazines, or a bottle show somewhere even exists to begin with. They certainly can access the information, if they look for it, but by presenting the extracted essence of all those resources to a more “relaxed” demographic than you people, without them having to actively look for the supporting info, the show might empower some people who are interested in finding treasure, and not in some way preserving history as well. Ultimately, it all depends on how the show is structured, I suppose.
Here, some may argue that it is not history unless it is “civil war related” or associated with important people or events or whatever. This is a foolishly arbitrary way of categorizing that which is historically desirable and that which isn’t, unless you have a subconscious bias, or are looking for increased profits. In that case, then it helps out a lot. The civil war was fought by everyday men like you or I, and it is them and their lives that are important, not the years 1861-1865 or the famous names associated. The bottles from then are important because of the human element that encompassed the bottle’s creation and use, a story and perhaps a way of life that permeated the entire age it came from, and not just a superficial event it can be linked to so that more people care about it and thus pay it more attention (and cash). It is all history, in some small way, whether we can access it with our feeble senses or not.
I react strongly because I have been screwed as a younger kid by greedy bottle dealers, several times, when I trusted them and the information they presented. When I saw it was all about money and not the love of the history and its implication, and that they were willing to present a false reality so they could profit off me in some way, well, it hurt. I don't want to see the same thing happen universally to this hobby. I don't want even more people than there are already who love money so much that they take advantage of people who love history.
quote:
ORIGINAL: whiskeyman
Yet, some of you are saying all this bottle activity should be squelched and driven underground ?
Who said that? The bottle activity you mentioned is excellent, and if people get on TV and talk about the history of various bottles or interconnected industries then that's awesome too. That would be really great, and if they hinted that such things can still be found in dumpsites, then potential collectors might find their own way to this end. What is not awesome is the potential of making a mockery of what this is all about. Just look at the diggers in Wilmington who cought some flak as a result of their greed, eh? Bottles are "treasure" in many minds, mine included, but not in the sense of gold chains and gems and crap that can pay for new cars and stuff. The historical implications are far more important in most cases than monetary worth, and for many people, it is the local bottles that connect them to a more tangible past, and not the nationally available bitters from wherever, that mean the most. The TV show may make it seem like a Dr Kilmer’s is better than a local pharmacy bottle simply because more people will buy it, and that just ain't cool, man. Feel free to disagree.
quote:
ORIGINAL: whiskeyman
And the reasoning is - exactly what?I don't see now nor have I ever seen a mad rush by people to suddenly dig bottles in hopes of getting rich.
None of us can have reasoning for words not written by anyone else but you, sir. I haven't seen a rush either, naturally, but this modern society seems to be a lot more about money than it ever has before. I mean hell; it has replaced God for many people, something almost unspeakable 100 years ago. I don’t think there will be a mad rush, its not like this is 1849 or anything, but even if less than ten thousand people are eventually influenced by a TV show or 3 to become successful bottle and relic profiteers who don't record even a little of the historical context, then there would probably be noticeable damage the hobby, at least in terms of available information. It is fine if you record important finds and what they mean and then sell whatever it is, but don't destroy the meaning of the item solely for the love of lifeless cash. If my “ten million” statement threw you off, let me assure you it was an exaggeration to the effect of illustrating the point that I’d rather have history than money, and the figure was in no way proposed as an actual estimate, lol.
quote:
ORIGINAL: whiskeyman
I believe the majority of people are far more grounded in reality than to expect that to occur.
Well when you phrase it the way you did, I imagine that no one would expect a bottle blitzkrieg to occur. Neither I nor anyone else was trying to make it seem like the end of the world, haha, we were just expressing the definite possibility of TV shows like this setting a precedent for the basstardization of an honorable hobby, one which many of you helped build, and I among many hope to help preserve if necessary.
I wouldn't mind if the whole world dug, as long as they all did it for the right reasons.
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Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest.
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RE: TV production company looking for real 'diggers' - 
I will also require a personal bucket puller or two. This will all be ironed out in the contract.
And would love to do a TV show then all you ladies can buy my"ACE OF SPADES" t-shirts.
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