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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> What is it? BEFORE 1900 >> What are these

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What are these - 1/17/2005 7:14:45 AM    Tomgor   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/17/2005 Status: offline Hi everyone I have got this group of bottles in a bequest from my grandfather and I wanted to sell them. Can anyone tell me the best way to do this in the UK. I can post more detailed pictures if needed. To give an idea of scale the large bottle is about 14 inches high and very heavy. Any comments appreciated. Picture cropped and reduced in size - please see Help - Using the Forum ---> Uploading a Picture - Admin Attachment (1) < Message edited by Admin -- 1/18/2005 5:42:47 AM > _____________________________ Tom Post #: 1

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 8:13:32 AM    WhiteLighting Posts: 485 Joined: 1/21/2004 From: The Electric City,Upstate NY Status: offline WOW!,Black Glass/Utility glass...... GIN,......Matter of fact early 1800's 1700's?.......Guys help this person out! do any have wax seals left on them? < Message edited by WhiteLighting -- 1/17/2005 9:55:13 AM > _____________________________ It's time for another TEA PARTY!!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 2

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 10:40:57 AM    WhiteLighting Posts: 485 Joined: 1/21/2004 From: The Electric City,Upstate NY Status: offline The squarish one is called a dip-mold case gin,either its Dutch or english "anyone have info for this guy?".......plus its lip/top is crooked which is a + when selling due to it being a imperfection "in my opinion though".... the others we would need to see the bases to see if they are Pontil,and also any markings "On one of the seals you said theres a crown",I have looked through 2 books so far but no info yet......check in a few hours these guys will have an answer for ya.... I tried. _____________________________ It's time for another TEA PARTY!!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 3

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 11:14:05 AM    lobeycat Posts: 3801 Joined: 9/8/2003 From: RED SOX Nation Status: online Hi Tom, very handsome collection you have there. 1700s The square one is indeed a case gin, pig snout I believe. The squat ones are referred to as mallets, with string lips. The round short one is an onion. The one in the back is appears to be a champagne, the one with the seal is a port I think. The value of each is relatively high. Ebay would be the best way to sell them, in the utility, black glass catergory.When and if you list them there, make sure to make them available to the US market as well as your own country. The more people that have a chance to bid the better your chances of getting top dollar. I've been to England twice and you have antique and bottles shops everywhere. Go to two or three shops and get prices on similar bottles. This will give you a good idea what there going for. You'll be surprised at the prices I think. Good Luck (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 4

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 4:05:43 PM    bigkitty53   Posts: 286 Joined: 3/28/2004 From: Bermuda Status: offline Hi Tom, To echo Lobeycat,a VERY handsome collection indeed!Are you sure wish to sell this lot?Sentimental reasons aside,there are some excellant bottles in that collection,(and they are not anything you will likely ever replicate again!) the sort of bottles that will appreciate in value as long as you hang on to them. IIIFFfff you do decide to sell,please post a notice/link to your Ebay page on this forum,there are a few collectors here I know would be interested! (Kumtow,that bodyseal is mine!l.o.l.) KAT _____________________________ "...Just don't let me mistake you for a mouse." (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 5

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 5:43:49 PM    kumtow   Posts: 171 Joined: 5/13/2004 From: Australia. Tropical Queensland Status: offline Like hell it is Kat. The bottles look like they are English except for the seal at the rear. That one looks continental. Hard to tell with the gin without looking at the bottom. Some very nice bottles there Tomgor especially if they don't have any chips or cracks. These bottles do well on eBay. Price has come down a little though as the market has been a bit flooded lately with bottles from a dutch fort in South America. _____________________________ ~Alan~ Arrgh, not another....... Holbrookes!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 6

RE: What are these - 1/17/2005 9:54:45 PM    BRIAN S.   Posts: 1471 Joined: 5/27/2003 From: The Mountains of Tennessee Status: offline Hi Tomgor and welcome to the forum ! I would be interested in any of the glass seal bottles if you decide to sell outright. Just drop me an email. And if listing them at auction ...... please inform me of when they go up for bids . Thanks , Brian _____________________________ Tennessee Hillbilly Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! Always looking to buy or trade for Drake's Plantation Bitters and Drake's go-withs . And Tennessee Bottles and Jugs ! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 7

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 3:18:17 AM    Tomgor   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/17/2005 Status: offline Thanks for all your posts. Very much appreciated. I'm slightly confused as to the opinions regarding ebay. Is this the best place to sell or to buy? If I was to put them into auction here it would take a few months and would miss most of the world market. However, as I don't have any clue as to starting prices I'm hesitant to put them on ebay. If anyone can give me pointers as to an opening price/reserve it would be very helpful. They are pretty much undamaged except for the small squat one which has a small amount of the lip missing, though this is a very old damage and may be intrinsic to the bottle. The very large one looks in the picture like it has some of the top missing but it's all there just that it has kind of melted to one side. Will certainly keep everyone informed as to where they do go. Tom (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 8

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 3:43:56 AM    bigkitty53   Posts: 286 Joined: 3/28/2004 From: Bermuda Status: offline Hi Tom, Ebay is great as it allows bidders from all over the world,maximising potential bids. These Particular bottles,being freeblown,and mostly with seals,should also do well with one of the big auction houses' specialist auctions.(Eg. Christie's,Skinner's,etc.)Either auction venue will have previously sold similar items to give you an idea of what you can realize.I won't give you any values myself as I would be very interested in bidding on a few of your items myself,and wouldn't want any of my fellow forum members crying foul! Suffice to say,these are largely bigger-ticket items,some bids will run into the hundreds. Hope this helps, KAT _____________________________ "...Just don't let me mistake you for a mouse." (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 9

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 6:29:36 AM    Tomgor   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/17/2005 Status: offline Should I put them on as a group or seperately? (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 10

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 7:01:04 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline Hi Tomgor, welcome to the forum. Firstly I'll just say HOLY %$# thats some good stuff , a few of that those where made before there where even whitefellers living over here (according to populer history anyhow ). secondly I'd say you are better off selling seperately. (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 11

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 7:32:45 AM    BRIAN S.   Posts: 1471 Joined: 5/27/2003 From: The Mountains of Tennessee Status: offline Hi Tomgor , Selling them seperate is the way to go. As far as ebay goes ...... I wouldn't worry about putting a reserve on them if your not trying to recoop any $$$$ you have invested in them. Better stuff on ebay usually brings a fair market value. And it seems you get more bidding wars going if there is a no reserve auction. Or you could consign them to B.A.M. as they have no selling fees right now. Or Glassworks , Heckler's , or American Auctions. But , they do charge fees to sell thru there auction houses. Hey , Good luck on whatever you decide to do with them . Brian _____________________________ Tennessee Hillbilly Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most ! Always looking to buy or trade for Drake's Plantation Bitters and Drake's go-withs . And Tennessee Bottles and Jugs ! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 12

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 10:20:58 AM    WhiteLighting Posts: 485 Joined: 1/21/2004 From: The Electric City,Upstate NY Status: offline Quite abit of money if sold sepratley,in the american market even more than the english,just like my shear top inks........ _____________________________ It's time for another TEA PARTY!!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 13

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 1:50:41 PM    cowseatmaize Posts: 2135 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Metro West, MA Status: offline An American bottle from the same time period can bring a lot more than a European one. An English mallet may get 75-100 dollars but an American may get $200+ unsealed. That's here in the US though. Since you’re in the UK I suspect yours are European. A sealed one is worth more than an unsealed one. There are lots of variables. I'd like to add a word of caution. It's true you can get a good price on ebay but... The world only sees ebay for a week. An auction house may run a catalog for a month or more and the buyers are in that market. They may be trustworthier then some of the unscrupulous buyers you will run into on ebay. You should have a good feedback rating before you start. Many will be turned off by a new seller. Sellers who regularly sell bottles often get better prices than someone who's in the business of comic books or no specialty at all. Do research and be sure to describe them accurately. Include nicks, chips, cracks and even scratches or you may lose what feedback you do have. Mention how you got them, it's part of their history. Give enough info but you can give too much also. On items as old as these some wear would be expected though. These people are on ebay often and do well. The link below is of a similar one to one I see in your picture. http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/Item0099.html Put them up separately and ship the separately. Don't offer combined shipping and pack, pack, pack well. If you find a friend to sell them for you be careful. Write the add yourself to avoid trouble later. I'd guess friendships could be lost by having it done wrong by someone else. Get an idea by looking in the pre 1900 flask, bitters and especially black glass categories (Utility & Black Glass here Wine/Black Glass in the UK). I just looked at the UK site and I see the same bottles listed in the US and I think the rest of the world. There's no definitive method and no guarantees for the outcome. I found this for the UK, it may help. http://www.onlinebbr.com/auctions/ Good luck and nice bottles. (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 14

RE: What are these - 1/18/2005 5:47:32 PM    kumtow   Posts: 171 Joined: 5/13/2004 From: Australia. Tropical Queensland Status: offline Tom, Cowseatmaize has a good point about eBay only being on for a week, however, there are some dedicated early glass collectors who check the Utility/blackglass section every day (including me). Ebay.com (American eBay) would be the best of all the different eBays as these bottles do well there. I have sold similar on Australia eBay and I was stunned at how poorly they did. I am not sure how well they will go on the UK eBay. Cowseatmaize's comments on mallets is a little too general. European early glass is generally slit into two groups, English and Continental. A continental onion bottle is quite common and will realise $US 75-100. An English onion on the other hand is much rarer and will realise anything up to about $US600 depending on shape and condition. English mallets are more common than continental mallets however both types pull about the same price somewhere around $US200-300. English seals are very sought after, yours at the front looks English, late 1700s early 1800s and will do well. Pre 1800 continental seals are very rare (seal at rear) and should do very well and I won't even guess at how much that could sell for. May I suggest you have a look at a site called earlyglass.com. This is a site run by Mark Nightingale (from Cornwall I think) who is an early glass expert. The site has many early bottles for sale and you should find similar items to compare to yours. Be aware though that eBay will NOT get the prices that Mark has on his bottles. You need to be aware that most postal systems will not insure fragile items for breakage. Most will only insure for loss so make sure you pack really well. Hope this helps you out. Alan _____________________________ ~Alan~ Arrgh, not another....... Holbrookes!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 15

RE: What are these - 1/19/2005 5:35:10 PM    kumtow   Posts: 171 Joined: 5/13/2004 From: Australia. Tropical Queensland Status: offline But on the other hand.........to save you lots of hassle.........I'll give you 50 bucks for the lot. _____________________________ ~Alan~ Arrgh, not another....... Holbrookes!!! (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 16

RE: What are these - 1/20/2005 5:22:11 AM    Tomgor   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/17/2005 Status: offline Alan, you should have said something sooner. I just accepted 49.50. (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 17

RE: What are these - 1/20/2005 6:54:20 PM    wootten   Posts: 87 Joined: 1/16/2005 Status: offline please let us know what you found out about the bottles.....wendy usa (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 18

RE: What are these - 1/21/2005 7:51:13 AM    Tomgor   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/17/2005 Status: offline Dear All thanks for all your help. this is the appraisal I have from an expert in the UK "I would expect to see these fetch individually in auction (from which commissions etc need to be deducted), from left to right: Large squat with remnants of gilding................................................approx £40-£50++ Flat lipped strange squat if molded, of no interest, if freeblown version?........ £10? Very wide bodied squat at rear........................................................approx £40-£50+ Waterwashed, generally lightly pitted mallet to front .........................approx £70+ if of small (half) size?..approx £120+ Sealed coat of arms continental long necked mallet at rear................approx £150-£250+ Freeblown case bottle if blowpipe pontilled on base...........................approx £30 if not pontilled............approx £10 The sealed English cylinder............................................................approx £100-£160+ The double magnum squat.............................................................approx £100+ The continental seal is perhaps the most interesting and possible "sleeper" but at the same time the most difficult to price. (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 19

RE: What are these - 1/22/2005 4:12:17 PM    wootten   Posts: 87 Joined: 1/16/2005 Status: offline wow-what an interesting thread to read! It is so special to have others help out-I wish I had a bottle worth $$$$- wendy (in reply to Tomgor) Post #: 20

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