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RE: can somebody please give me any information about this bottle

 
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RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/3/2008 9:08:10 AM   
madpaddla


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From: The great state of New England
Status: offline 		Yeah I would go with an English Mallet.  The base really looks like it.  If it was cleaned a bit better, etc it might make some good money.  Depending on any info you can find on the seal.  Is it possible for you to take some pics with better lighting, or outside?  And it sure looks like a face on the front.  Real creappy looking.  The whole outline is there, eyes, chin....ahhh   nice bottle.
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Post #: 21
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/3/2008 2:34:56 PM   
bottlediger


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quote:

The bottle is 10 1/2 cm around the lip, 3 cm arross the lip, 21 cm in height, 36 cm around the body, 11 cm across the bottom. The bottle looks like it is made of a special kind of clay. I am not sure.
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoergaPaul

So are you saying this is not a glass bottle?

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Post #: 22
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/3/2008 2:49:16 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5157
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Suriname was a tough place to colonize. Dont think I would have volunteered for that job (apparently a lot of people were not volunteers). Seems like the Dutch were the most persistant. I cant really make out the design well in the photos. Generally speaking it seems to have a pre-19th century form. Does Suriname have any odd laws pertaining to collecting antiquities? Some countries can be a bit strict.

< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/3/2008 2:50:18 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 8:03:11 AM   
DoergaPaul

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline 		I dont think that the bottle is made of glass. Suriname does not have any odd laws concerning antiques as far as i know. Does anyone have any idea about the bottle's true origin and possible name?

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Post #: 24
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 8:08:05 AM   
madpaddla


Posts: 2805
Joined: 12/29/2005
From: The great state of New England
Status: offline 		Here is a shot at it, could you take some pics outside when its sunny, what do you think the composition of the bottle is?  If its not glass, then clay prob.  Maybe a local piece where they tried to make do with what they have at the time.  Best of luck.

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Post #: 25
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 8:08:48 AM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5157
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		The Dutch made a lot of bottles out of clay but I havent seen any that looked like that.Was it in a fire or just buried? It odd that its in a style typically used for black glass bottles.

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Post #: 26
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 8:24:04 AM   
DoergaPaul

 

Posts: 18
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Status: offline 		It was buried under our building when we were making the foundation.

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Post #: 27
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 9:19:43 AM   
tigue710


Posts: 1743
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: connecticut
Status: offline 		its glass, just extremely mineralized.  At first I was not sure you had a "real" bottle but I know first hand that dug bottles from the 17th -18th century when found near the coast have mineralized to point that they do not seam like glass anymore but more like a thin clay.  The glass decomposes in the ground to certain degrees depending on how alkaloid or acidic the soil is, there has not been any in depth experimentation to date to fully explain this.

Your bottle looks dutch me,(or possibly spanish?), in a form popular around the 1730's.  It is if authentic a very rare bottle and unfortunately most people on here including myself have no idea what it is. 

there are a few European forum members who could help you possibly but I'm not sure where they are right now...   I would try to contact some of the European glass experts on this one...

PM me if you need help getting a hold of some people...


< Message edited by tigue710 -- 8/4/2008 9:22:45 AM >

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Post #: 28
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 10:11:56 AM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5157
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Try holding it up to a VERY bright light. Even a highly oxydized black glass bottle will probably still be transluscent. You should see some amber or olive green color. A ceramic item will be totally opaque.

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Post #: 29
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 10:59:41 AM   
DoergaPaul

 

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Post #: 30
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 11:08:21 AM   
Flaschenjager


Posts: 1140
Joined: 12/21/2002
From: Central Virginia - USA
Status: offline 		Hello everyone -
Look again at post #14 of this thread. I've run these pics through Photoshop with contrast, brightness and photo sharpening and it's tough. The pictures aren't the best, sorry. Pic. #14 shows a reflection near the center. Then it looks to be scared in the center. Well clay and earthenware doesn't shine unless it's glazed or coated, as we all know. So, without holding it and given the shakey pics to go by, I'd say it is glass.

Glass with a lot of patina, ground wear and uncleaned. The form is right for an early Dutch vessel and comparing the lip treatment with cross sections in my books (Roger Dumbrell), it matches forms from the mid to late 1700s.

The seal with the 'scribble scribble', then a face like embossing, seems like a tourist like addition. I'm not saying it is a sort. It just looks that way given the pics we have to work with. Maybe a stoneware type material added or formed over the glass? Who knows.

Someone needs to look this vessel over in person. I suggest that you take it to someone local to you and they should be able to direct you accordingly. A museum that deals with such, would help you.

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Post #: 31
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 4:11:25 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5157
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		Photos are often difficult to interpret , even good ones. Nothing beats holding it in your hands.

I think the main evidence that it is glass is the lip and the pontil base. Both are in styles typical of glass and uncommon in ceramic.
And the shine you pointed out is certainly an indicator...
Definately not the type of thing we see much here.

< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/4/2008 4:15:45 PM >

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Post #: 32
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 4:45:59 PM   
lobeycat


Posts: 3801
Joined: 9/8/2003
From: RED SOX Nation
Status: online 		A dutch mallet is a free blown piece of glass correct? so the image/figure would have to be applied right? at first i thought it was a lion but after belting it with a massive dose of radiation it appears to be a face. Almost looks pre Columbian. that's not a seal for sure. to my eye it appears to be part of a headress.  I alwayd thought it was glass. The lip for one like Gunth stated but I've never seen a piece of pottery or stoneware with a kicked up base.




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Post #: 33
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 5:27:48 PM   
GuntherHess


Posts: 5157
Joined: 12/13/2004
From: Frederick Maryland
Status: online 		nice photo enhancement there lobey. I should get you re-do my passport photo

looking at that image my first impression is a Buddist face.  Anyone else getting that?  if I read correctly there was a large influx of Indian laborers into Suriname. 
Maybe something brought from India?
It also looks a little like that face people see on the surface of Mars but dont think i'm betting on that option

How bout this face???
http://www.nexsketch.com/japan/images/pictures/asakusa_kannon_temple_buddah_10_12_05.jpg



< Message edited by GuntherHess -- 8/4/2008 5:30:22 PM >

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Post #: 34
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/4/2008 7:58:18 PM   
glass man


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seems to be a face as someone stated before.Wish the pictures were more clear.Whatever it is it has people talking that is a good thing. PersonaLLY I THINK IT IS A PEICE FROM THE MOVIE "CASTAWAYS" THAT WAS FINALLY FOUND!

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Post #: 35
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/5/2008 10:27:05 AM   
DoergaPaul

 

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Status: offline 		The funny thing is that now i have more questions than answers.

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Post #: 36
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/7/2008 6:23:44 AM   
tigue710


Posts: 1743
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: connecticut
Status: offline 		lol... ya we're good for that!  It is a most unusual bottle, that is for sure.

Lobey it was possibly blown in a dip mold with the face engraced in the mold, that would explain the poor detail...  I've never seen anything like it....


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Post #: 37
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/7/2008 11:48:45 AM   
capsoda


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Status: offline 		Looks like a Yeti to me or maybe one of those Catholic monistary wine bottles.

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Post #: 38
RE: can somebody please give me any information about t... - 8/8/2008 3:43:07 AM   
deepbluedigger

 

Posts: 231
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From: Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		I think it's probably not very old at all.

If the face is embossed it's not freeblown, for a start. The proportions and shape of the neck are all wrong for an English mallet, and the shape rules out a dip mold (it would have been impossible to remove from the mold once blown). The photos of the base are not clear enough to see if it's pontilled, especially as it's apparently so sick.

When I first saw it, it reminded me, more than anything else, of some modern eartherware liquor bottles I saw a few years ago, glazed in a matt charcoal gray color and covered in bright yellow and red paper labels.

Unless some much better photos are posted that show otherwise (it can't be that difficult to get some daylight shots, in focus, can it?!) I'd say it's early or mid 20th century date but made to look 'traditional', probably for a central American liquor that used Aztec or Maya imagery as a branding device.

< Message edited by deepbluedigger -- 8/8/2008 4:00:19 AM >

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Post #: 39
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