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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Sodas - Embossed, Paper Label and ACLs. >> COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date)

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COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:38:02 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline The photo below is of an early Coca Cola bottle cap I have - and one which I have been attempting to date and/or identify. The image is a little blurry - and it reads as follows from top to bottom ...                                              MINIMUM CONTENTS                                                               6                                                      FLUID OZS                                                    COCA COLA                                               REG. U.S. PAT OFF                                          COLORED WITH CARMEL                                         CRASS COCA COLA BOT'G                                                        PLANTS                                                  RICHMOND, VA.                   (Unseen in the photo - On the side of the cap is the number 8) I always try and do my research first, but this particular cap has me stumped. Following this first page will be a couple of others with additional photos to help better illustrate the full nature of this query.                                       Thanks in advance to all who reply.                                                    SODAPOPBOB MY CAP   Attachment (1) Post #: 1

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:40:30 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Circa 1911 cap - Amber Root Bottle Attachment (1) (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 2

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:42:32 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Circa 1915 Cap - Hobbleskirt Bottle Attachment (1) (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 3

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:43:56 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Circa 1923 Cap - Hobbleskirt Bottle Attachment (1) (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 4

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:53:39 PM    OsiaBoyce Posts: 3465 Joined: 12/8/2005 From: Chinquapin Falls, S.C. Status: offline http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY5x8pF512k Early 30s _____________________________ Got A Problem.......Let Me Tell Ya What I Think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnQ65J02XA (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 5

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 2:54:04 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Please Note : I have determined that the Richmond, VA. plant opened around 1907. And that because it has "Minimum Contents" on it, it would date it around 1914 or later.                                                 My questions are as follows ...                                      1.   What does the word "CASS" refer to?                                      2.   What year was this cap produced?                                      3.   What does the number 8 represent? If you have the answers to my questions, or any other info about this subject you would like to share, please let me know. Thanks again, SPB     (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 6

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 3:07:37 PM    digdug Posts: 999 Joined: 11/4/2004 From: Atlanta Status: offline The 'Crass' on the cap refers to a Family (Last name Crass) that owned around 40 different Coca-Cola bottling plants in Virginia, West Virginia and I think Maryland.  Try to do a search at google  on Crass Coca-Cola, something should come up. < Message edited by digdug -- 4/23/2010 3:12:07 PM > _____________________________ Check out my blog http://cocacolabottleman.wordpress.com/ (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 7

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 3:22:38 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline OsiaBoyce ~ Thank you for the response - but I need to ask if you are sure about the early 1930s date?  Although I don't have an exact chronological photo file on Coca Cola caps, everything I have seen "so far" from the 1930s look like the one shown below. digdug ~ Thanks. I Googled the name but so far didn't find what I was looking for. But I intend to check again. Attachment (1) (in reply to digdug) Post #: 8

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 4:24:08 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline I've looked at so many Coca Cola bottle caps my eyes are going blurry. But I cannot find anything quite like the one in question here. Regarding the 1930s examples, I keep coming up with images like the one in this magazine ad from December of 1932. Most of what I have seen so far have a silverish/gray looking backgrounds. But mine has a tannish/beigh background. Its no big deal really. I was just wondering if it was possible to determine if it came from a straight-sided bottle, or a Hobbleskirt? Thanks again, SPB  Attachment (1) (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 9

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 4:29:19 PM    OsiaBoyce Posts: 3465 Joined: 12/8/2005 From: Chinquapin Falls, S.C. Status: offline   I'm purty sure of it. See the one top left? Same thing sans the xtra info. Oldest I got. There's somebody out there that can tell you the exact date, I can't, but I know where to find them. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Got A Problem.......Let Me Tell Ya What I Think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnQ65J02XA (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 10

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 4:32:57 PM    OsiaBoyce Posts: 3465 Joined: 12/8/2005 From: Chinquapin Falls, S.C. Status: offline Here's a few more. A standard for caps was not  set in stone for bottlers. I got a couple of htf 55's around here somewhere that's unique to Coke caps. I'll look for em in a bit. Attachment (1) _____________________________ Got A Problem.......Let Me Tell Ya What I Think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnQ65J02XA (in reply to OsiaBoyce) Post #: 11

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 5:01:42 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline OsiaBoyce ~ Thanks. I really appreciate the help. Another thing that's confusing me is in regards to the "Minimun Contents" aspect to all of this. I know the "Gould Amendment" that was added to the U.S. Food & Drug Act of 1906, states that all food and drug containers were required to show the "contents" information somewhere easily visible on the containers. And that the deadline or grace period for this new law ended in 1914. And yet I keep seeing straight-sided Coca Cola bottles that are dated circa 1911-1913, etc; but the caps already have the 6 oz contents info on them. So does this mean that Coca Cola voluntarily put this info on their bottle "caps" in advance of the 1914 deadline? And if so, then why don't the pre-1914 bottles themselves also have this information embossed on them?                               I hope this isn't too many questions, as I have one more ... Does anyone have a "for sure" 1905-1910 straight-sided Coca-Cola bottle with the cap still on it? And if so, could you please share a photo of it for us?  (actually, that's "two" questions).  Thanks a million, SPB    (in reply to OsiaBoyce) Post #: 12

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 8:47:54 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Hey Morb!  Where are you?  I hope you see this and can tell us something about the "Cass" operated Coca Cola bottling plants in Virginia. I checked your website and didn't see anything connected with the Richmond bottlers. The only thing I came up with so far was that the Cass family operated several plants, and that a date of 1907 was somehow connected. I Googled every combination of "Cass Coca Cola Bottler Richmond Virgina" that I could think of, but found very little, and certainly nothing specific. I contacted Bill Porter, and even he admits he doesn't know that much about bottle caps, and even less about the Cass family bottling operations of Virginia..                                To reiterate :  I'm trying to determine the following ... 1.   To date my cap as close as possible. 2.   To determine why the contents information is on pre-1914* Coca Cola bottle "caps." 3.   To find out some specific information on the "Cass" bottling operation(s) in Virginia. 4.   To see if anyone has a photo of a 1900 to 1905 Coca Cola bottle cap.                                * (The Gould amendment / law deadline was 1914). Thanks again to all, SPB < Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 4/23/2010 8:50:44 PM > (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 13

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 8:57:36 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline P.S. ~ In my last post I just realized I misspelled Crass. (Cass) But my searches were all done under "Crass." SPB  (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 14

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 8:59:01 PM    OsiaBoyce Posts: 3465 Joined: 12/8/2005 From: Chinquapin Falls, S.C. Status: offline Here's a little help for ya or get you going in the right direction. http://www.bottlecapclub.org/ _____________________________ Got A Problem.......Let Me Tell Ya What I Think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnQ65J02XA (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 15

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/23/2010 9:16:08 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline OsiaBoyce ~ Thanks again - seriously. But I spent about a half hour on that very site earlier today, but still did not come up with anything of real help. If you found something there please let me know. I don't want to send them a e-mail inquiry just yet. That would be too easy. Plus, for the time being I prefer to keep this in the A-B.net family. Much more fun that way! And your timing is just right, because my brother from Idaho just sent me the following ... So I guess I can scratch Q.# 3 off of my list. SPB                                                                     ~ * ~ James E. Crass (1867-1930), was born in Mayfield, Kentucky, and founded the predecessor franchise group to the Central Coca-Cola Company, Inc. Orphaned at an early age Crass was sent to live with an older half-brother, John T. Crass, a contractor in Chattanooga, Tennessee. His brother built the Lookout Incline and Lula Lake Railway in the late 1890s in Chattanooga. When of age, James E. Crass worked for his brother as an agent for a new cable line in the area. Crass saved money from his jobs and at the urging of Asa G. Candler, owner of The Coca-Cola Company, he purchased a small Coca-Cola bottling plant in Charleston, South Carolina in 1899. Within the next year Crass quickly outgrew the small plant and moved to Richmond, Virginia to build a larger plant in a more expansive bottling territory. Syrup in his territory was acquired from the Coca-Cola Company (Thomas) of Chattanooga, Tennessee who held the exclusive rights to sell the syrup to other bottlers in Crass’s area. Crass grew his Coca-Cola conglomeration into 42 franchises in Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania among other states. James E. Crass was married to the former Emma Leimenstoll of Ohio. They had four children: James Edward, Lottie, Ada, and Nellie. At the time of his death in 1930, Crass was one of the most successful owners in the Coca-Cola franchise network and even produced his own brand of soda. In preparation for the future of the company Crass had taken on his son-in-law, and former Coca-Cola Company sales manager, as an employee. Walter L. Sams took over the management of the Crass plants upon Mr. Crass’s death. (in reply to OsiaBoyce) Post #: 16

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/24/2010 3:27:04 PM    RED Matthews Posts: 2261 Joined: 8/2/2008 Status: offline HI SODAPOPBOB, & OsiaBoyce, I am working on my wifes computer because my harddrive crashed. Anyway, I have a large Coca-Cola Glass Advertiseing Bottle that needs a Crown Cap. The cap will have to fit a 1" top crown finish, preferaly with Coca-Cola on it. The bottle measures 19-3/4" high, with a shoulder bulge of 6" an the same base diameter - Hobble Skirt Design with the ACL "/ Coca-Cola \" on one sied and "/ Coke \" on the back. I have no clue as to how common these are, but it is the only one I know of. I hope to be back in business in a few days. RED Matthews _____________________________ http://www.bottlemysteries.com/welcome/ (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 17

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/24/2010 3:41:13 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline Hey Red!  Where ya been?  I was looking for you the other day. I was hoping you could take a look at my thread on early "Crown-Top" soda bottles, and was hoping with your expertise with bottle molds that you might have some input on the subject. Speaking now of your "Huge" Coke bottle, I saw one of those last week at an antique show. But this one had Coca Cola in script on both sides. However, it didn't have a cap like the one you are looking for. The seller was asking $200.00 for the bottle itself. I imagine those accompanying caps are pretty hard to come by, and I will definitely keep my eyes peeled for one. Thanks again, SPB   (in reply to RED Matthews) Post #: 18

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/26/2010 9:17:53 AM    fanboy   Posts: 41 Joined: 1/7/2004 Status: offline Have you explored when "US Pat Reg" started use? I can not find it at the moment, but I have the feeling it started in the 40's and earlier you would see "Trademark Registered" on items. The full bottles at the top I think are recaps, also the 1915 and 1923 show the exact same cap, even the same scratch... Chris (in reply to SODAPOPBOB) Post #: 19

RE: COCA COLA BOTTLE "CAP" - (Help w/ID-Date) - 4/26/2010 12:32:58 PM    SODAPOPBOB Posts: 3558 Joined: 3/10/2010 Status: offline fanboy ~ Good eye - good observations. I didn't catch the same scratch part. But I did wonder why the closeups of the bottles were empty instead of with contents as shown in the full image. And now that I have taken a second look at things, I'm sure the photos of both caps and both full bottles are the same photos. You will notice the 1915 photos are bright and focused, where the 1923 is duller and slightly fuzzy. For whatever reason they used the same photos for both bottles and only changed the closeups of the empties. And as for the "Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.," I'm confident it refers to the Coca Cola name itself, and not the bottle or the cap. And I totally understand what you mean by the actual wording difference, but I'm not sure if it's possible to differentiate if/when the two options were used, other than from old magazine ads and/or close examinations of other Coca Cola items. At your suggestion I intend to take a closer look into this, but I have a feeling I'm going to discover multiple variations of the wording throughout the entire course of Coca Cola merchandising. But until I look, I can't say for certain. It could boil down to the fact there were no rules regarding caps, (especially in the early days), and that each individual bottler did whatever they wanted, (within reason). And if this is the case, I may never be able to date it. About all I can say for sure is that of the dozens and dozens of Coca Cola caps I have found images of, I have yet to see a single one like mine. Nor have I seen one yet that is made of gold colored metal like mine. All that I have seen so far are silverish/gray metal.  I'm not the type of individual who gets carried away with wishful thinking, nor do I try to date something earlier than it is - it's just a bottle cap and no big deal - and yet my gut instinct, plus 30 years of collecting tells me my cap is pre-1920, and possibly even pre-1917 which is when the hobbleskirt finally went into full circulation. I honestly believe it came from a very early, straight sided bottle. You'd think it would be a simple thing to determine what Coca Cola's first crown cap looked like. But it's starting to look as if it's as difficult as determining what their very first crown bottle looked like. Two mysteries in one! Thanks again. You've been a great help. And welcome to the club. SPB      (in reply to fanboy) Post #: 20

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