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Ever seen a round bottom Hutch?

 
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Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/28/2010 10:55:20 PM   
jays emporium


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I've never heard of one until now.  It is embossed RISCHE'S.  I suspect it is English just because of the round bottom but I don't know if they even used Hutchinson stoppers over there so I don't really know where it is from.  An unusual combination in any case.




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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/28/2010 11:18:40 PM   
celerycola

 

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That's a rare 1880's Texas Soda. Ulrich Rische was the son of German immigrants who migrated to San Antonio where Rische operated a bottling plant for forty years.

Another early Texas round bottom was used by Star Bottling Works in Houston. There were a lot of other American round bottoms from the 1850's on.

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 6:10:27 AM   
blobbottlebob


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Very nice bottle - thanks for showing it. The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles was to keep the cork from drying out. (If you can't stand the bottle up, moisture always stays on the cork). Obviously, dry-rotting wouldn't have been a problem for a hutchinson stopper (which used a rubber type of seal). Therefore, this bottle has a weird little mis-match of the technologies available at the time. Cool.

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 7:14:03 AM   
jays emporium


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Dennis,
Thank you so much for that information.  I'm supposed to be a Texas bottle expert and didn't know that.  Shame on me.
There were other Texas sodas in the collection but also other foreign bottles so I did not know where the round bottom Hutch could be from.  I'll see if I can find any information on Riche from SA.  Do you have any links about that company?
What you have told me makes the difference in that being a $10. bottle and a $100.+ bottle.  Thanks again.
Jay

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 8:03:26 AM   
celerycola

 

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Hi Jay,

I've been researching sodas for forty years and I 'm not an expert. Between that and Graduate School in Archaeology I've learned some research tricks.

Do a Google search on "riche's bottling" in quotes. Then try "riche bottling." After Google search Yahoo which will give you a different mix of results. New information is being published online every day so searching again in a month may give you new information.

Do you have any information on Wells Bottling of Galveston circa 1900? Did the Wells have any other plants in Texas before they opened Big 4 Bottling in Waco in 1907? Do you know anything of their Dr. Pepper imitator drink called Deacon Brown?

Have you heard of Celery Koke sold by Tony Giarraputo in Dennison circa 1906? How about the Koke Company of Texas in Dallas?

I have a lot of other Texas questions but am not home at my main computer to get to my research. Any help you can provide on the above would be much appreciated.

Dennis

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 9:47:33 AM   
grime5

 

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i was looning through the bottles i bought the other day and think i remember seeing a decon brown dr.pepper bottling co.bottle.i think it was an embossed taller maybe 9oz bottle.is that the one your thinking about? later greg

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 10:20:38 AM   
jays emporium


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I found documentation of Rische's Bottling Works in San Antonio in the late 1800's, owned by Ulrich Rische.  Found it on Google in a book titled "Texas and Texans".  That is enough proof for me that the bottle is from San Antonio, especially since there was another San Antonio blob top soda in the same collection.
I am familiar with the Star Bottling Works Houston torpedo soda but never heard of a San Antonio round bottom before, or any round bottom Hutchinson for that matter.
Wells Steam Bottling Works in Galveston produced the famous "cave man" Hutch.  I don't know of any other locations for Wells.  And I don't know anything about the Koke bottles you asked about.  Send me a list of your Texas questions and I'll try to get some information at the Houston bottle show.
Jay

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 11:15:49 AM   
athometoo


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im so jealous , you lucky dog .

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 11:20:51 AM   
athometoo


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in 1880 san antonio had 4 bottling plants . hope it helps    sam
SOFT-DRINK INDUSTRY. The Texas soft-drink industry dates from 1839, when Dr. Thomas Mitchell, an English physician living in Houston, operated an apothecary with a soda fountain from March until his death on October 1. Carbonated water had bubbled from springs in Europe since Roman times. During the eighteenth century, scientists experimented with "fixed air" and produced "aerated waters." Some of them used bicarbonate of soda in their experiments, and the term "soda water" became ensconced in the English language. By 1810 New York City had "soda fountains," where proprietors dispensed artificial "mineral waters" for therapeutic purposes. Flavored soda water, which developed with the rise of the ice industry, was available in apothecary shops, but bottled soda water was an expensive product. Sailing ships took ice from northeastern states to New Orleans in 1820 and later to Houston, and in 1838 a Houston newspaper noted that ice sold for 50 cents per pound. In 1850 Texas had none of the sixty-four bottling plants in the nation. The first notice of a soda-water manufacturer in Texas was issued in 1866, when the Houston City Directory listed J. J. C. Smith's establishment as a "mineral water manufactory." In the 1870 census, Galveston and Brownsville reported "manufacturers of mineral and soda water." Victoria and Austin had two ice-making machines. Texas had one of the four ice plants in the nation. In 1880 Texas had eleven bottling plants: four in San Antonio, two each in Galveston and Austin, and one each in Houston, Dallas, and Mexia. In 1890 Texas had forty-two soda-water plants, plus five unspecified bottlers and seven breweries (see BREWING INDUSTRY).
The 1890s saw major changes in the state's soft-drink industry. New plants appeared with the introduction of the Hutchinson bottle stopper, patented in 1879 and manufactured in Chicago. (In a Hutchinson stopper, a wire loop protruded from the bottle neck and was fastened to a rubber seal; when seated the seal blocked the escape of gas from the water in the drink.) Most plants served one or two counties, and occasionally they shipped by rail to neighboring communities. The bottler's largest investment was in bottles and cases. No deposit was charged and bottle stealing among bottlers was common, even when glass blowers embossed the name of the town on the bottles. In 1891 the Elliott Bottling Works of Paris called a convention to address the problem. Twenty-nine bottlers and suppliers, principally from East Texas, met in October in Dallas and formed the Texas State Bottlers Protective Association. They drafted a constitution and by-laws aimed at preventing "the unlawful use of registered bottles, boxes, siphons, etc." But policing was impossible.
By the 1890s two beverages had changed the character of the soft-drink

< Message edited by athometoo -- 4/29/2010 11:22:37 AM >

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 11:45:37 AM   
SODAPOPBOB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blobbottlebob

The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles was to keep the cork from drying out. (If you can't stand the bottle up, moisture always stays on the cork). 


BBB ~

Here's a reply Bill Lockhart sent me regarding a question I asked him about early crown-top soda bottles. I was curious about a particular bottle I have with a large capital "A" on the bottom, and inquired of Bill why this was present on my bottle. It's relates to what you said above, and I thought I'd pass it along for emphasis. Plus, I like your profile name.  Lol 

SODAPOPBOB

(Bill Lockhart's quote).

Hutchinsons were packed with the finish/top down to keep the seal wet. In order to easily distinguish that a case of empty bottles ONLY had their own brand, many Hutch users had their initial (or company name) embossed on the base in a large letter. The practice continued with crown caps -- even though the main reason no longer existed.   

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 12:18:10 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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P.S. ~

Bill Lockhart's reply is a lttle confusing, in that he said the practice of putting letters, etc. on the bottoms of Hutches was ... 

                    "to easily distinguish that a case of empty bottles ONLY had their own brand."
 
And yet at the same time he said ...
 
                    "Hutchinsons were packed with the finish/top down to keep the seal wet." 
 
So I'm wondering ...  If Hutches were shipped in wooden cases when they were empty as well as full, did they have a specially designed case just for Hutches that allowed the bottles to ride safely, but at the same time not push against the Hutch "pull ring" which would have caused the full bottles to leak?  I've never seen a Hutch only type of wood case. Was there such a thing?
 
Thanks,
 
SPB    

< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 4/29/2010 12:21:37 PM >

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 12:58:57 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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In response to my own question regarding Hutchinson bottle cases, I found the information below. If someone has a good photo of one of these cases, I for one would be interested in seeing it.

Thanks,

SPB




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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 1:40:12 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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Jay ~

I apologize if it appears that I'm highjacking your thread. This is not my intent. It's just that I find it facinating, and have suddenly taken a genuine interest in Hutch bottles in general, and Texas bottles in particular. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the website I posted a link to below, but I thought I would share it with those individuals like myself who have never seen it before. It's all about the Texas soda history, and may prove for some to be a valuable resource. I believe it's the same site where "athometo" got his information. I just thought a direct link to it would help.

        Thanks again ... I may live in California, but I'm a true fan of Texas and "Texacan's."

SPB

                     http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/SS/disyk.html  

< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 4/29/2010 1:47:54 PM >

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 2:16:32 PM   
jays emporium


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Bob,
I already got what I wanted out of this thread, I found out where my unidentified bottle was from and better than that it is a very rare Texas bottle.  It may be the only example of this bottle found to date.
As for Hutchinson cases, I have had one but don't have a picture of it.  It is a wooden case tall enough to cover the whole bottle, with small holes in the wooden bottom just large enough for the blob tops to fit through.  The bottom is raised about 4" above the bottom of the side boards so the bottle tops would not touch the surface below.  I think there were wooden dividers to keep the bottles from touching as well.  It held 24 Hutchinson bottles.  Mine did not have a lid but some may have.  Wish I still had it.
So keep this thread going, Bob, interesting stuff.
Jay

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 2:45:33 PM   
jays emporium


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Now, like Bob often does, I'll reply to my own post.  If Hutchinsons were designed to be crated and shipped upside down anyway, what is the purpose of making a round bottom bottle?  The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles, as blobbottlebob pointed out, was to keep the closure wet.  So if the packing case was designed to do just that why make round bottom bottles in the first place?
It's no wonder not many of these type bottles were made in the US.  It would simply be inconvenient to open a bottle of soda in the 1890's and not be able to set it down until you drank the whole thing.  I know they made special holders to set them in but I doubt they were commonly used or even available.  I think I have discovered an obscure bottle design that was obsolete before it was even produced.

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 3:06:42 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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Jay ~

I just read back through the entire thread, and unless I missed something, I didn't see where you mentioned anything about any other marks/letters embossed on your bottle. So out of curiosity I thought I'd ask.

That's interesting what you said about Hutch bottles, especially about them not standing up. And along these same lines, (see my boxed Hutch info above), I'm also curious now why they say the contents would only stay fresh for "approximately 10 days." As long as it was sealed and air tight, I can't see why it would make a difference what type of closure it had.  ??? 

SPB    

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 3:27:42 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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I've been searching for an answer to my next question, but since I can't find the answer, I thought I would post my question now.

We know that Hutchinson bottles also came with "flat" bottoms as well, so I'm wondering what the whole story is on "Round Bottoms vs. Flat Bottoms?"

If I find the answer before someone else does, I'll let you know. But so far it's not looking too good.

SPB


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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 6:15:42 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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As if I haven't confused this thread enough already!  Here's a "round bottom crown closure" bottle I stumbled onto today. It is described below as follows ...

Note : (My reason for posting this is to draw attention to the round bottom that, until a little while ago, I thought was only done on Hutches and similar early bottles. The information below was the only details available on it. But now I'm wondering why in the world would they put a round bottom on a crown bottle?)

SPB

Description:

Round Bottom Soda Bottle Applied Crown Top ca.1890s. Also known as a Cucumber. This bottle was blown in a mold, and has what is known as an applied crown finish closure. The lip, a crown top, was fashioned after the bottle was removed from the mold in which it was blown. It is 8-1/4 inches long. Nice shade of aqua. Probably held Gingerale, though other soft drinks were bottled in round bottom bottles as well. Mouth-blown, true applied crown finish closure soda bottles are very uncommon. Mouth-blown, tooled crown finish soda bottles date from possibly as early as 1894, but more likely from about 1897.





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< Message edited by SODAPOPBOB -- 4/29/2010 6:19:08 PM >

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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 6:17:45 PM   
SODAPOPBOB


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And here's a closeup of the bottom, which is indeed fully rounded without the hint of a flat surface.




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RE: Ever seen a round bottom Hutch? - 4/29/2010 7:19:37 PM   
cyberdigger


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This is getting juicy! 

I have also long wondered why a round bottom bottle would have a crown top.. never even pondered a round bottom hutch! Congrats, Jay!!! I do recall hearing that early crown caps were lined with a thin disk of cork, which would probably have the same drying out problem as a regular cork...? So, why don't all early crowns have round bottoms? Because, they suck. Round bottoms were made to travel by boat across the seven seas, not to be bought at the corner store..

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