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All Forums >> [Trade] >> Buy, Sell & Swap >> RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale

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RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/13/2010 6:13:12 AM    pyshodoodle Posts: 2800 Joined: 8/3/2008 From: Lehigh Valley PA Status: offline P.S. I'm not usually one of the helpful ones. _____________________________ HONESTY IS NO LONGER PC. (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 21

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/13/2010 12:02:19 PM    RedGinger Posts: 6515 Joined: 12/7/2007 Status: offline You called it first on my mechanical bank, Kate. _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyVTdY2BI3g (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 22

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/13/2010 12:36:03 PM    pyshodoodle Posts: 2800 Joined: 8/3/2008 From: Lehigh Valley PA Status: offline Yeah, but I don't know a darn thing about the value of 17th century Dutch Glass found in a shipwreck off the coast of South Africa. OK - So, Wonderingstar. Just understand that this isn't a stagnant forum rarely visited, as many of them tend to be. This is a family group with Personality(s). Make peace with the natives if you would like our help. _____________________________ HONESTY IS NO LONGER PC. (in reply to RedGinger) Post #: 23

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/13/2010 10:57:29 PM    div2roty   Posts: 1435 Joined: 12/23/2008 From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store Status: offline we need pics. my only thought is that 10K is a lot of money for just about any bottle, but its really a lot for a dutch onion. no need to make peace with me, cause i'm not upset. i can take it and dish it out. i'd loved to be proved wrong, but i don't think its worth 10k, shoot my vehicle isn't worth 10k. _____________________________ Collector of Delaware Bottles, figural bitters, early freeblown. Ebay Antique Store (in reply to pyshodoodle) Post #: 24

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/13/2010 11:00:09 PM    div2roty   Posts: 1435 Joined: 12/23/2008 From: DC with a Delaware Antique Store Status: offline quote: (Matt 1 and 2) hey redginer, whats that mean? i dont get it at all, which is hardly surprising. _____________________________ Collector of Delaware Bottles, figural bitters, early freeblown. Ebay Antique Store (in reply to RedGinger) Post #: 25

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/14/2010 12:23:38 AM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to div2roty) Post #: 26

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/14/2010 1:10:41 AM    RedGinger Posts: 6515 Joined: 12/7/2007 Status: offline You and Gunth are both named Matt, and I liked both your posts.  Sorry, it was kind of vague.  You guys crack me up! _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyVTdY2BI3g (in reply to div2roty) Post #: 27

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/15/2010 2:52:20 AM    ajohn Posts: 1735 Joined: 8/25/2008 From: The Mountains Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: div2roty quote: (Matt 1 and 2) hey redginer, whats that mean? i dont get it at all, which is hardly surprising. I got it,and usually ya gotta draw pictures for me. I love the way you guys(and gals) stick up for each other! Hey Wandereringstar,No offense friend,but sounds like you gotta put up to make them.....Well,you git my drift.If I were you,I'd dig it out and post pics.just for GP. _____________________________ I found the Red Road through the valley of the shadow of death....and along the way,found some really cool bottles (in reply to div2roty) Post #: 28

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/15/2010 9:23:16 AM    saratogadriver   Posts: 555 Joined: 9/10/2009 Status: offline I don't spend $10K on ANYTHING that I haven't examined thoroughly, personally.  There are people on here who know enough about what they collect to buy a $10K item based on reliable pictures.    I know of no serious collector, here or elsewhere, who is going to plunk down ten large without seeing at least good pics of the item being sold. Jim G (in reply to ajohn) Post #: 29

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/15/2010 9:43:16 AM    epackage Posts: 7425 Joined: 5/3/2009 From: Jersey Status: offline Wanderingstar is obviously the type of person we don't need added to our great family of members, IMHO.....Jim _____________________________ Paterson NJ Bottles I Want Them! AKA Contest Winner ! R.I.P. Lobeycat Last Login 5/21/2011 2:16:48 AM R.I.P. 808 50th State Last Login 5/17/2011 2:44:53 PM R.I.P. Bearswede Last Login 11/9/2010 9:13:49 (in reply to saratogadriver) Post #: 30

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 12:46:54 PM    daltonbottles   Posts: 54 Joined: 5/11/2010 Status: offline I'll throw in my two cents here, and try to stay on topic.  Onion bottles, Dutch, English, or otherwise, were once a fairly scarce collectible in the bottle kingdom.  But with the onslaught of Essequibo material coming on the market in the past many years, Dutch onions in particular are VERY affordable to even the low-budget collector these days.  If what you have is a simple, and relatively common, "plain old" Dutch Onion, and with the damage you are describing, you will be lucky to get 20 or 30 bucks.  On the other hand, if the bottle is from the location and time period described, it could very possibly be an early shaft and globe, the forerunner to the true onion.  Nice examples of THOSE could realistically bring 5000 to 10,000 dollars, with the key being "nice".  Any damage is going to obviously affect the value.  Then again, if you have a true BLUE onion of ANY origin, you have something truly special, and the associated damage could be a minimal concern.  Willy Van den Bossche has a turquoise English onion shown in his book "Antique Glass Bottles" that is opaline glass, but it dates a couple of decades later than the wreck you mention.  Still, a true blue onion is a rarity, as long as it is the GLASS that is blue, and not simply the patination. As others have said, a picture is worth a thousand words of description.  But even the best of pictures are not worth ten thousand dollars.  Anyone even considering laying out that kind of cash will need to see your bottle "hands on"......... that is almost guaranteed. Hope this is of some help. (in reply to epackage) Post #: 31

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 12:55:32 PM    daltonbottles   Posts: 54 Joined: 5/11/2010 Status: offline This early shaft and globe sold at Heckler Auctions earlier this year for something close to $6000.  Very nice piece with a couple of body bruises as I recall. Attachment (1) (in reply to daltonbottles) Post #: 32

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 1:13:19 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline nice info there Dalton. Do you know when the first applied seals were used on black glass? _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to daltonbottles) Post #: 33

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 3:50:32 PM    daltonbottles   Posts: 54 Joined: 5/11/2010 Status: offline The earliest production of true "black glass" is thought to date to about 1630 in England, so that gives us a basis for the glass type. There are examples of sealed shaft and globe bottles, and that type generally dates from around 1630 to 1680 for the dark green to amber black glass, although there are earlier shaft and globes that date pre-black glass era. Christies sold one with a damaged seal in 1993 for $7778 that was estimated to date circa 1670, Bonahams had one listed in an auction last May that was estimated to date circa 1650-1660, and I have seen a very few others mentioned through the years, not being common by any means. I think its safe to say that the earliest sealed black glass bottles go back to or near the introduction of black glass itself. Van den Bossche also shows some nice examples in his book. But as far as seals themselves go, there are some examples of ancient sealed glassware that dates back to the later B.C. to early A.D. period. This was not "black glass" of course. Any sealed black glass bottle of the shaft and globe, onion, mallet, early cylinder, or any of the transitionals dating pre-1800 are highly collectible, and of course the earlier they are, the more valuable, even moreso if the seal itself is dated within the range of the actual bottle production. But be aware that there are sealed bottles of later periods on later production bottles that pre-date the actual manufacturing date of the bottle. This is due to owners requesting specific dates on seals, such as memorial dates, birthdates, etc. There are also cases where the dating on a bottle seal may indicate the vintage of the contents rather than the actual manufacturing date of the bottle. The style of the bottle simply may or may not jive with the seal date, and that can be very misleading in trying to date a bottle type only on the basis of the date on a seal. I have seen sealed bottles manufactured in the later 1800s with contents or vintage dates back into the 1700s. This is akin to trying to date a bottle according to the patent date, often misleading and confusing, especially to new collectors. < Message edited by daltonbottles -- 6/30/2010 3:53:21 PM > (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 34

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 4:54:20 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline thanks , I was using the term "black glass" loosely to mean any of the iron colored glass. I understand the problem with using seal dates. Its the same problem I see with people confusing patent and company establishment dates found on bottles. Do you have any ribbon seal bottles in your collection? I find those interesting because they seem more difficult to apply to the bottle. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to daltonbottles) Post #: 35

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 4:58:38 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 11468 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: offline http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-248601/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#254620 do you have any thoughts on this seal Andy dug? Im not sure anything was ever resolved on it. _____________________________ FREE Online Medicine Guide - http://www.antiquemedicines.com/MedicineNexus/Nexus.htm Web Site - http://antiquemedicines.com Email : mknapp@antiquemedicines.com (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 36

RE: 17th century Dutch onion bottle for sale - 6/30/2010 10:38:23 PM    daltonbottles   Posts: 54 Joined: 5/11/2010 Status: offline I have a couple of Herring, Herrig, Hearing, etc. ribbon seals, one of the more common types.  Interesting sealed bottle you linked.  My feeling is, from the pics, is that it's likely a circa 1770-1800 Continental wine, probably German from the combined lip finish, heavy open tube pontil, and name (as I read it) "HERSTIG", which I can only assume is a surname with M.W. being first two initials of the owner, bottler, or ?  This is what I see....... Attachment (1) < Message edited by daltonbottles -- 6/30/2010 10:41:28 PM > (in reply to GuntherHess) Post #: 37

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