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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Sodas - Embossed, Paper Label and ACLs. >> RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters?

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RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 8:36:54 AM    Bottleman Posts: 851 Joined: 9/3/2004 From: Central Pennsylvania Status: offline Chris, you have an amazing collection of sodas and beers! I am extremely impressed. Some great colors and shapes too. ~~Tom (in reply to cobaltbot) Post #: 81

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 9:06:26 AM    Road Dog   Posts: 768 Joined: 6/9/2005 Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: cobaltbot Just wondering, did this guy go out as part of the gold rush and then come back to Baltimore, or did he go out to San Fran later in the goldrush days or no connection. That's what I was not sure of. I thought Chris might have an idea on exactly who Babb was and if the Baltimore and Cal. are related. (in reply to cobaltbot) Post #: 82

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 1:39:05 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline I don't think anyone has posted any west coast bottles. Here are a couple of S.F. bottles, nothing fancy. Stinger Attachment (1) (in reply to Road Dog) Post #: 83

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 2:02:56 PM    baltbottles   Posts: 859 Joined: 11/25/2002 From: Baltimore Maryland Status: offline Cobalt and Road Dog, Its interesting that we find the Babb and Co San Francisco bottles here in Baltimore some times. I'm not sure if its Peter Babb but I was once told by a western collector that it was Peters Brother who opened shop out west about the same time Peter did in Baltimore. I think the family connection is why the San Francisco bottles turn up in Baltimore. I've never dug any pieces of other western sodas here. But if i had to say where the bottles were made I would bet money that all the different babbs were blown in Baltimore and I think that W.H. Burt that stinger has a picture of is also a Baltimore glassworks made bottle The form style of embossing and color look more Baltimore then Philadelphia made. I Will have to research the Babb and co bottles because I also think it could be a partnership between peter babb and someone out west to run the business there hence the and Company instead of and brother as would be expected if it was his brother involved. Its also interesting to not that before Peter Babb got into making soda he was a Gunsmith. Chris < Message edited by baltbottles -- 11/20/2006 6:43:47 PM > _____________________________ Please visit my website at : www.geocities.com/baltbottles/index.html (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 84

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 3:14:31 PM    Road Dog   Posts: 768 Joined: 6/9/2005 Status: offline Thanks Chris I knew you would know something on him. Here is a Kimball & Co. I sold awhile back. Charles Kimball was out of Marysville Cal. from 1853-1856. I kinda miss this one. Attachment (1) (in reply to baltbottles) Post #: 85

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 5:53:32 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Chris, the early S F. Babbs all had the taper tops and not the transistional tops that you usually see like the one in my picture. Most western soda tops weren't taper tops, do you think that Babb's eastern influence had anything to do with these early examples. Your sharp on sodas, you noticed the Burt and how its mold is different than the newer ones. The only thing that still throws me off are those curved "R" that Pacific Glassworks is famous for. The Burt has a curved R. Stinger (in reply to baltbottles) Post #: 86

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 6:18:22 PM    capsoda Posts: 7700 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online Hey Pono, What year were the San Francisco Babb bottles used.  San Francisco and Pacific Glass Works is reported to have used a star on the bottoms of their bottles from about 1876 when they opened until about 1890. There are also other instances of companies selling in the east and in Calif. One was Lachman & Jacobi. < Message edited by capsoda -- 11/20/2006 6:20:31 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 87

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 7:10:42 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Warren, that is true about the star being a mark of Pacific Glass Works. However, we have have had maybe 30 to 40  S.F. sodas and none of them had a star like what your talking about. I have had pickles with the star embossed on the shoulder and on the bottom. They were from Pacific Glass Works. So, you got me on that one. We usually only collect midwest, eastern and southern sodas. We need a western collector who can better explain this symbol of a star that Pacific Glass Works is known for. Most of the sodas made out west had the semi taper or the blob top. Babb was one of the few that we have found with a real taper top, these were early examples. Still, no star on them. Pono (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 88

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 7:36:17 PM    baltbottles   Posts: 859 Joined: 11/25/2002 From: Baltimore Maryland Status: offline Stinger, I would think your right that the eastern connection is why the earlier SF Babbs have the tapered top rather then the blob. Its the same story on the Baltimore ones the earlier ones have a more tapered lip and the last ones circa 1857 have a more rounded blob lip. As for the curved R's I believe there’s a Baltimore connection there also Many of the early pontiled Baltimore meds have so called curved R's and a few of the sodas also show some curvature of there R's I think It probably started as one Baltimore based mold makers way of making the letter R and later the western mold makers adopted and embellished those R's or perhaps the Baltimore mold maker left for SF and started up shop out there. And the local merchants that ordered a mold made really liked the curved R's. Seen on the bottles they were getting from Baltimore and wanted them on there first SF Glassworks produced bottles also. This is mostly speculation on my part. But the glass tends to support some kind of SF, Baltimore connection. Now If I could only figure out why Baltimore sodas come in so many colors the Boyd Torpedoes alone come in 4 shades of Puce, 2 shades of Yellow, 4 shades of Green, and in Aqua. With all those colors either the Baltimore glassworks made just a huge quantity of those torpedoes and John Boyd ordered them in a rainbow of colors. Which I highly doubt because they are very rare in any color other then olive green. I myself believe that because they are smooth based they were very hard and slow to produce. So perhaps because they were hard to produce The glasshouse simply had a hard time filling the order for these torpedoes so whenever they had some extra glass in the pot after an order of another type of bottle was filled the blowers made torpedoes to use up the extra glass and try to get the order filled. This would support that the odd colored examples would have only been produced in limited quantities. Perhaps Boyd received a discount for buying them in these off colors. Anyone have any other ideas? Chris _____________________________ Please visit my website at : www.geocities.com/baltbottles/index.html (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 89

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 9:02:33 PM    capsoda Posts: 7700 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: online Hey Pono, Thrs site discusses the star. http://www.blm.gov/historic_bottles/bases.htm The guy who put it all together is a westerner, from one of the states north of Calif but I don't remember which. His name is Bill Lindsey and here is a link to his discussion page on this forum. He works for the Bureau of Land Management. Bill is a really nice guy and is always ready to help. http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Historic_Glass_Bottle_Website/forumid_30/tt.htm _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to baltbottles) Post #: 90

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 9:09:01 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Warren and Chris, Pacific Glass Works started up around 1862 with an eastern glassmaker named Carlton Newman and a partner. Babb & Co was listed on 384 Stock in 1852-53 as manufacturing soda waters. In S.F. I think the only other co who was in business making bottles was the Baker and Cutting in 1858 and they made mostly nonsoda bottles. They didn't last too long. Burt was selling sodas in the 1850's as well. In less someone outside of S.F in the bay area was making bottles, it seems likely that the bottles were coming from the east coast prior to Pacific Glass Works. It has been reported that most bottles from the east coast were being supplied by the Union Glass Works in Philly prior to Pacfic Glass Works. There is the Philly connection. How were the "R"s at that glasshouse? In 1876 Pacific Glass Works was bought out by S.F Glass Works and its been reported that those special curved "R" have been attributed to that time period by many in the west.  By the way, I think the orignal Pacific Glass Works burned down two years after it opened and was rebuilt by Newman. Maybe, because Babb had the Baltimore connection, his came from there prior to the opening of Pacific Glass works.  Stinger (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 91

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 10:08:08 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Warren, great website. That would answer why we don't see the star on many western sodas that were made prior to 1876 when S.F. and P.G.W. merged.  Also they weren't used on the sodas. That is why we've had other west coast nonsoda bottles with the star on them. We collect older bottles, pre star and usually not used on them. Stinger (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 92

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/20/2006 10:18:37 PM    cobaltbot Posts: 1586 Joined: 4/7/2006 From: Delta, PA Status: offline Chris you have 53 -57 listed on your web site for Peter so very close to the same time period.  At this time any sodas coming from the east coast would have to go by ship around the horn, right?  Would ship manifests list names of shpments of these type bottles. Imagine a few are sitting on the ocean floor. _____________________________ My tombstone will read: He went out for a walk and never came back.... (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 93

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 12:12:48 AM    craigc90 Posts: 638 Joined: 8/17/2004 From: Bloomingdale Ohio Status: offline This is a great thread. I love the pictures. Here are my 2 favorite bottles. The 2 in the center are J Henry Steubenville Ohio and a Brennan & Grahm Steubenville Ohio. Both are iron pontil. I have a few good bottles I would be interested in tradeing for Steubenville ohio bottles of any kind.There are a handfull of Pontiled squats from Steubenville that I still need. Attachment (1) < Message edited by craigc90 -- 11/21/2006 12:20:15 AM > (in reply to cobaltbot) Post #: 94

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 12:54:53 AM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Craig, I can see why you would want to trade for Steubenville sodas, those are really different shapes. I wish you were trading the Steubenville sodas. Can you take a picture of just those two sodas. I think everyone would love to see them. Can you give us some history on them? Stinger (in reply to craigc90) Post #: 95

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 12:08:04 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2020 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Did you say EARTHQUAKE? Do you have an earthquake-proof bottle room??? That's scary! I have learned alot reading this thread end to end. Some really nice pics of bottles in here. _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 96

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 3:18:16 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Hey Zane, The Pele, the god of fire, gets mad once in awhile and shakes things up. If he really gets mad, he'll spit some lava down on us. He wiped out whole communities in the southern tip of our island. He even came within 8 miles of my house once. We secure our bottles in varies ways. I use earthquake putty that is especially made for things like earthquakes. I was shooting a group of sodas and left them in the room without the putty. I lost 3 of them. I know a guy over in Kona that lost his entire collection of Hawaiian hutches. He was from the mainland and didn't like the way the putty looked with his bottles. The west coast collectors have lots of earthquakes, so they have learned to earthquake proof thier collections as well. Thanks for the nice comments on the bottle pictures. MORE TO COME! Stinger (in reply to zanes_antiques) Post #: 97

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 3:25:13 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline Here are some more Pittsburgh sodas. Stinger Attachment (1) (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 98

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 3:27:05 PM    stinger haut   Posts: 518 Joined: 6/7/2006 Status: offline A few more Pittsburgh sodas. Stinger Attachment (1) (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 99

RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters? - 11/21/2006 6:11:24 PM    craigc90 Posts: 638 Joined: 8/17/2004 From: Bloomingdale Ohio Status: offline Here are the 2 pontil sodas from Steubenville Attachment (1) (in reply to stinger haut) Post #: 100

All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Sodas - Embossed, Paper Label and ACLs. >> RE: embossed pontiled sodas and mineral waters?

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