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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Digging and Finding >> RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now?

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RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 5:21:15 PM    Mike O Posts: 476 Joined: 12/26/2005 Status: offline That I will Mike, That I will!  (in reply to earlyglass) Post #: 21

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 5:43:14 PM    woody   Posts: 1658 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline The key to the article is "state owned land". That doesn't mean you can't dig for bottles on private property with permission. I'm not too concerned with it being enforced. _____________________________ Woody (in reply to Mike O) Post #: 22

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 5:56:26 PM    deepwoods   Posts: 334 Joined: 2/9/2004 Status: offline Good point, Woody. I'll never forget a program I saw a while back about archeologists exploring a bronze age shipwreck; one of the archeologists (rather pompously) said "to us a finding the remnants of a camp fire is just as important as finding gold coins"; then one of the divers found an amber necklace and everyone on the boat started dancing a mazurka. _____________________________ J.D (in reply to Mike O) Post #: 23

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 6:10:03 PM    capsoda Posts: 7865 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline It got so bad in Pensacola,FL 10-15 years back that they actually had a meeting on the court house steps. It was low life slimey theiving bottle diggers against HOLYER THAN THOU arcys from the university. There were two well known local arcys with the bottle diggers but nothing really every came of it. Oh except the head of the arcy department at the university is now a resident of the state for stealing all this stuff she was saving from the diggers and selling it on ebay.  No kiddin it is the truth. I'm am a proponent of flying under the radar and not being noticed though.  Crap, I must be getting soft as I get older. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to deepwoods) Post #: 24

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 6:30:23 PM    madpaddla Posts: 2764 Joined: 12/29/2005 From: The great state of New England Status: offline UNREAL !!  Ok I can see how these bottles/dig sites  are valuable to the environment, community, etc.  But on the other side....if they are so valuable...then why aren't these scholars digging em up??  I am doing something different and will be giving many of the local bottles...that wouldnt sell on ebay for much anyway to the local historical societies.  That might be an idea for some other diggers.  BUT to stop diggers from digging b/c it is of historical importance....THAN DIG IT !  And if they aren't digging it than its can't be that important.  Ben I will add on the state property though.  So that would include...hmm most railroad tracks and vacinity, around old abandon buildings, etc????  I challenge that idea a bit.  Sometimes the best thing coming out of these places is the bottles.  And the local historical societies are proud to recieve the extras.  So in those cases I don't see the harm.  Correct me if I'm wrong....understood that decimating an area by a greedy bottle digger is not right and egregious. < Message edited by madpaddla -- 12/23/2006 6:04:45 AM > _____________________________ It pays to look down. Ebay stuff http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZspliffybigfeetQQhtZ-1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ckIv1tiaU&feature=related (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 25

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 6:38:35 PM    ConchDigger   Posts: 39 Joined: 12/18/2006 From: Key West, Florida Status: offline Good for the cop who let them dig. He or she obviously thought allowing people to dig who were having fun and not hurting anyone was more important than enforcing some obscure law for the sake of “following the rules”. Crap on the other guys who “dig” being controlling. Here are some different Florida State Statute excerpts pertaining to historic resources and lands: "Historic property" or "historic resource" means…These properties or resources may include, but are not limited to, monuments, memorials, Indian habitations, ceremonial sites, abandoned settlements, sunken or abandoned ships, engineering works, treasure trove, artifacts, or other objects with intrinsic historical or archaeological value, or any part thereof, relating to the history, government, and culture of the state.” “It is further declared to be the public policy of the state that all treasure trove, artifacts, and such objects having intrinsic or historical and archaeological value which have been abandoned on state-owned lands or state-owned sovereignty submerged lands shall belong to the state with the title thereto vested in the Division of Historical Resources of the Department of State for the purposes of administration and protection.” “Any person who by means of excavation either conducts archaeological field investigations on, or removes or attempts to remove, or defaces, destroys, or otherwise alters any archaeological site or specimen located upon, any land owned or controlled by the state or within the boundaries of a designated state archaeological landmark or landmark zone, except in the course of activities pursued under the authority of a permit or under procedures relating to accredited institutions granted by the division, commits a felony of the third degree.” So, just what are we talking about there? Are old bottles historically significant just due to their age? If so, what is the age cut-off? What is historically significant? I’m sure if I called up the people in Tallahassee and said, “Hey, do you want the five old embossed laxative bottles I found in the Smith’s outhouse hole in Key West? I’m sure it’s historically significant that someone in the family around the turn of the century was constipated all the time” They’d hang up on me I’m sure. We all know and love that there is history in these old bottles, but collecting the trash of by-gone eras and preserving artifacts of historically significant events and places and famous people is different. If I found the engraved chamber pot of Andrew Jackson I would donate it! Plus, there are already many large bottle collections held by the state and U.S. government. For now, I’ll keep my digging low-key, fill in my holes, and stick to private land. I do not want it to become the object of debate in a local public forum. That is how new laws are made and current laws become more restrictive or the target of enforcement! Happy digging! Brenda (in reply to madpaddla) Post #: 26

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 7:05:28 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline I'm glad to see everyone agreeing on this one.  It does not matter if you trespass or get permission, fill your holes or leave a mess.  They don't care about diggers or treasure hunters, they want it all to themselves or left in the ground?  When we dig bottles we ARE PRESERVING them for future generations.  When archaeologist dig bottles they are KEEPING THEM LOCKED up in a lab forever.  SCREW THEM, they can't have it all. There are a few more interesting posts about this same topic on bottledigger.net.  _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to Mike O) Post #: 27

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 7:33:35 PM    woody   Posts: 1658 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline That's why New Hampshires' state motto is "Dig Free or Die". _____________________________ Woody (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 28

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 8:12:20 PM    subsoil Posts: 97 Joined: 7/31/2006 From: NH Status: offline Good comments made by all, I'm glad this is a top issue with the community here, it affects everyone regardless of where you're from and if you dig or not. My issue with the sudden attention to this is that diggers are labeled as some sort of new "treasure hunter" that wrecks havoc on the earth for "no good reason". Suddenly these diggers who are noticed in a popular dump next to the tons of other craters left by diggers from the 70s and up must be stopped? What about the many of us who have donated bottles to historical societies and lecture FREE information about bottles so people are aware of the significance of early glass? If the Arcs had it their way, the glass would stay buried forever for nobody to learn or care about, and they claim that's more valuable!? If anything, one would think more value lies in getting the glass out of its grave and on forums like this so it can be seen, discussed, and possibly obtained. LOL Zane's right on! I've dug the now-banned site before and one of the popular camps had some fellas drinking Keystone from a 30 pak,  they showed us bottles they had found cleaning up the camp and asked us if they were valuable - plain meds. I said "not really, but you all should get down there and dig!" I never seem to have problems with local police. I've dug on another dump that was dug back in the 60s and 70s when it wasn't a big deal for anyone to be in the woods digging, it is registered as federal property, and the town police said no problems at all. But when the "officials" show up, be prepared to turn over your finds (or bury them fast) and get out for that day! I am disgusted with the local media for simply quoting what the "officials" say, not even a single quote from a digger to get a different side of the story. What happened to investigative reporting?  I hope no one was digging when the circus showed up to save the day, I heard the EPA, Army Corp, News teams, state and local police all showed up! If anyone was at the camps they must have sh@t bricks! I feel the conclusion is we will be continually forced to pursue our hobby outside of the radar and keep the lowest possible profile about what we do to avoid this kind of negative attention, despite the fact that previous generations have dug the same sites without much trouble. Original article from the Manchester Express: http://shantec.resonancehosting.com/express_12_21_06.pdf < Message edited by subsoil -- 12/21/2006 8:21:29 PM > (in reply to woody) Post #: 29

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 9:10:28 PM    bttlmark   Posts: 402 Joined: 11/23/2005 From: N.E. Florida Status: offline So it seems that some one was riding over the bridge & saw digging,,stuck their nose in and started trouble. The bottles there are landfill...The winos are probably littering the place with plenty of empty Qts.. He said a Thousand dollars each and then it began. Greedy Govt Archeologists,,,always worried that somebody is getting something that they are not < Message edited by bttlmark -- 12/21/2006 11:07:18 PM > (in reply to earlyglass) Post #: 30

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 9:23:28 PM    bottlediger Posts: 1450 Joined: 2/19/2006 From: York Pa Status: offline I just read the new artical, THERE IS A FREAKING OVER PASS (BRIDGE) Built right ontop of the freaking dump. That arch is pissed that bottlediggers disturbed the ground. Think of how much disturbance was caused when the bridge was built. But no one cared then. WTF (in reply to bttlmark) Post #: 31

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 9:37:19 PM    Caretaker maine   Posts: 518 Joined: 7/9/2005 From: Scarboro Status: offline Saw the story on the Portland news tonite, knew just what they were talking about, I say join a historic society and get them involved, I have donated some of the stuff I have dug to the local one here, they told me they knew nothing of the place in town, they were a couple of local milks with the farms, this just puts a bad taste in my mouth, that's why I moved out of NH, was there for 25 years and I saw the Mass. trasplants moving up and trying to change things, I guess they will have to change their name to northern Mass, this is very bad and it's not going to go away, the guys who dug there have save some great history, they didn't tar over it , they saved it, shame on the archy _____________________________ go out and dig something (in reply to bottlediger) Post #: 32

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 9:53:42 PM    bottlediger Posts: 1450 Joined: 2/19/2006 From: York Pa Status: offline words from a smart man (in reply to Caretaker maine) Post #: 33

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 10:47:25 PM    capsoda Posts: 7865 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline If I were one of you NH diggers/collectors I would damn sure get my side heard. I would gather info to arm myself against the nutty professor and the state, building the overpass/failing to stop the building of the overpass on such historic finds, and the fact that a 1000 buck bottle of any kind is a once in a lifetime find and I would get a group together and go after them just like they are doing you. The papers will print your side to if presented right and I have met many of you so I know the intellegence, love for the hobby and ability are there. Try the local politicians who are outdoor types and others who know what bottle digging/collecting is all about. Then lock and load and God save the the target in your sights....Just my thoughts. It will only snow ball if you don't.  And how come when they do it it is significant, when a construstion crew does it its progress but when we do it for love of the glass we are theives???? < Message edited by capsoda -- 12/21/2006 10:58:10 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to bottlediger) Post #: 34

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/21/2006 11:22:30 PM    ConchDigger   Posts: 39 Joined: 12/18/2006 From: Key West, Florida Status: offline Our city ordinance is very strange. It quotes the state statute alot, but when it came right down to it this was the meat and potatoes: -Any major disturbances (12" or more) made while working under a permit (building permit, etc.) on private property needed to be signed off on by the "city archaeologist" (whoever that is). It doesn't say anywhere that you need a permit just to dig. -Any artifacts found on private property belong to the property owner and he doesn't have to turn them over to anyone. -Any artifacts over 50 years old are protected by section blah, blah, blah, which doesn't even exist anymore. -Any artifacts found while probing, metal detecting, etc. on city owned land are required to be "registered" with the city historic district office within one business day. Any "disturbances" must be monitored by the city archeaologist. Okay, by now I was really confused. So, I can dig without a permit as long as I'm digging for no reason other than to dig. If I find anything, the land owner gets first dibs. If it's over 50 years old it's protected by an ordinance that no longer exists. If I want to dig on city land, I have to be monitored by the city archaeologist and register any artifacts with an office that no one's ever heard of. Written in true Key West style Please, don't anyone call the city and point these things out to them!!!!!!! (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 35

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 2:27:37 AM    baltbottles   Posts: 921 Joined: 11/25/2002 From: Baltimore Maryland Status: online Ok Archaeologists like to leave things in the ground unless the site is going to be impacted and destroyed. And even then the site only gets dug if its on government owned land or the project has government funds involved. So most privately funded projects have no archeology done. The main reason they don't dig sites that are not going to be impacted by development is because If they leave it in the ground it gives them Job security. If they dig up all the sites then we will have no need for archaeologists. So they all will be out of a job.  Oh and Capsoda digging a $1000 bottle isn't a once in a life time thing. I probably find something worth that every few months at least. Theres alot of good stuff in the ground you just need to do the research to find it. Chris _____________________________ Please visit my website at : www.geocities.com/baltbottles/index.html (in reply to ConchDigger) Post #: 36

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 4:19:08 AM    kastoo   Posts: 1258 Joined: 9/7/2004 From: Lagrange, GA Status: offline SUCKS!  Well, shoot...if they will let you dig with a permit then at least you can still dig.  I think a permit is worth it IF it is affordable and a permit will keep only interested people digging...not just every Tom, Dick and Harry.  HOWEVER, a total ban would be bad....I've have heard of diggers paying the city rent for one day to escavate lots.... (in reply to subsoil) Post #: 37

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 7:00:36 AM    southern Maine diver Posts: 1436 Joined: 8/13/2005 From: South Berwick, Maine USA Status: offline It never rains underwater... and the ****s can't see you diggin a hole neither!!!! Wayne (in reply to kastoo) Post #: 38

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 8:54:30 AM    bikegoon Posts: 671 Joined: 10/2/2006 From: Lebanon, Ohio Status: offline I must agree with Warren, you got to strike back on them.! _____________________________ A little of everything at http://www.bottlecache.com (in reply to southern Maine diver) Post #: 39

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 10:48:30 AM    PhilaBottles Posts: 1003 Joined: 9/25/2005 From: philad.A Status: offline who here has an archaeology degree? LMAO I love how some of us turn into professionals. I LOVE IT. Those guys and gals wont dig up your stuff. Its not the end of the world. Archaeologists milked Geo. Washingtons trash pit behind his house in Mt. Vernon for 4 years. THE SPOT WAS 10' x 10' ! Old trash dumps will get claimed by the state as long as they are on state land. They will never be dug. It will make it harder for you to make a clean getaway, but it will up the prices for dealers and the poor collectors. _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/iheartmykitten (in reply to Mike O) Post #: 40

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