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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Digging and Finding >> RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now?

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RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 11:02:15 AM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline I wrote a letter to the reporter...Here it is and then his response. ___________________________________________ Eric, As an avid bottle digger (with a college degree in Archaeology) I find your news story extremely one sided.  That site along the river has been pounded by diggers since the early 60's, why is it big news now?   Most bottle diggers are good citizens who care about private property and historical context.  I really think you should follow up with a story about bottle diggers and their side of historic preservation. _______________________________________ The story is one sided, largely because I couldn't find a bottle digger from this area that wanted to speak on the record. However, the facts still stand. It is illegal, according to the letter of the law, though what the spirit of the enquiry is I have yet to determine. As far as preservation of history, I stand on the fence about that. I have a bachelors in Anthropology and a masters in Heritage Studies which focuses largely on material culture. I worked for several years as an archeologist and saw the wanton destruction that even the most well intentioned avocational digger could wreak on a site. Given all that, if you can connect me with a digger in the area willing to go on record I would love to talk with them and air their side of the story, not only to be journalistically fair but in the spirit of debate as well. As for why it's news now is simple. We were told about it and we felt readers would be interested in it. Much of the news covered is not fresh, but redicovered, kind of like an old bottle. I do appreciate you taking the time to get back to me and air your opinion. If more readers did so all of journalism would be better for it. Best wishes for the holiday and the New Year. I look forward to your reply Eric Baxter __________________________________________________ His email address is  ebaxter@manchexpress.com   I think more people should write to him and express their opinions.   I'm posting this on every bottle forum I can find. Joel < Message edited by Mainepontil -- 3/10/2008 10:00:58 PM > _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to Mike O) Post #: 41

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 11:05:43 AM    PhilaBottles Posts: 1003 Joined: 9/25/2005 From: philad.A Status: offline sounds like someone has aids. but on the other hand, his rubuttle did sound good. _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/iheartmykitten (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 42

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 12:35:45 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: PhilaBottles sounds like someone has aids. but on the other hand, his rubuttle did sound good. ????  I don't know what that's all about but his REBUTTAL is really just as lame as his one sided story.   _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to PhilaBottles) Post #: 43

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 1:15:07 PM    frank   Posts: 544 Joined: 3/13/2005 Status: offline I sat figured out the archies want too make some money of the deal too after seeing what they could get of ebay  for them?????? It all about the greenbacks!!!! (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 44

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 1:48:06 PM    capsoda Posts: 7703 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline Well there is your in. Go get the bA$*^%&s. Let the public know that we are not digging sites of archaeologicly important sites. Hey Chris, if I lived in Baltimore, Boston, New York, I would say that with my research abiltiies and digging experance I probably could dig quite a few 1000 buck bottles in a year but I live in an area where the town was super small but the military presence was large until the late 1870s. There were a few timber towns if you can call them towns and a few scatered settelments that didn't last long enough to make a differance. We have our big buk bottles such as the only hutch in the world with the Pepsi script but most everything else was imported and unembossed. Lots of onions were found along with demis and meds back when but not these days so it is sodas or nothing and an occasional goody. I think most diggers would like to live where the bottles were actually made in abundance like you northerns folk but we dont so 1000 buk bottle is a once in a life time fimd to many of us who are not as lucky as you. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to frank) Post #: 45

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 2:48:13 PM    Caretaker maine   Posts: 518 Joined: 7/9/2005 From: Scarboro Status: offline if they pass a law of no digging, then this summer, I'm going to have every 5 year at Hampton Beach arrested for digging holes to make a castle. these idiots better think before they pass these laws , cause there are a lot of use ready to push them to inforcement, when they get 100 calls in one day, this is so moronic, you pay taxes on state land, that means it's our land, period _____________________________ go out and dig something (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 46

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 2:52:45 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2020 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline Seems to me he could get plenty to print right from this thread. Then again, it might not fit the PC Agenda. _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 47

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 2:57:42 PM    PhilaBottles Posts: 1003 Joined: 9/25/2005 From: philad.A Status: offline i think he blew you out of the water from a non-bottle digger point of view. the general public does not know or comprehend what we do. whatever he writes will be what shapes the readers minds. he simply took your letter, ccrumpled it up, ate it, pooped it out, and blew you off. but us bottle diggers see it a whole diff way. we see him as an idiot, and im with you. I just think if this went to the public/non diggers...he would have the upper hand. so tare him apart. quick story...theres a river in Slovania. all kinds of crzy stuff is found from divers. The archaeologists want to keep it all. The guy who wrote the article went to a divers house...the author described dusty cases. see what im gettin at? if you think ur gonna be able to shut this guy up...go for it. but otherwise, it will just go away. _____________________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/iheartmykitten (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 48

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 3:36:09 PM    digger mcdirt   Posts: 804 Joined: 8/8/2005 Status: offline I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to go to the newspaper and say I am the one who has been digging there. I mean if the newspaper wants another side to the story good luck. Sounds like the state has the Ace in this case. I would not go and say I was the one who had been digging it up there. They have already made it know from their point it is illegal and who knows what kind of charges they would try and bring against the ones who said "Hey we have been mining the Site". I saw the state smoke a man who was bottle digging years ago they even brought charges against him about changing the flow of water etc etc. I serve in City Gov. and there are State and Federal laws against changing the flow of water . We run into it all the time a City can even be fined. No I would not dare go and do a newspaper interview if I was the one digging there. I think it will blow over in time and within a few years or year it can be dug again under the radar if someone wanted to.I hate it for the ones digging there. But all it takes sometimes is one loud mouth to ruin a place. I dig solo and for a reason.I have learned throught the years 30 + years of digging the best policy is out of sight out of mind unless you are on property with written permission. I hope if the ones who were digging there is reading all this they think long and hard before letting the newspaper talk them into another side of the story. That is admission and can be used against them planning on how far the state wants to go. I say it will all die down after a while the Police will Hawk it for a while and burn someone up if they catch them. Just my thoughts on it. _____________________________ McDirt (in reply to PhilaBottles) Post #: 49

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 4:29:18 PM    capsoda Posts: 7703 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline I agree, Never admit you were there but it couldn't hurt to let people know we are not treasure hunting theives like that stupid schmuck says. We don't go out and dig up grave yards and burial sites  and destroying bottles by the thousands just so we can get another grant or for progress. We dig bottles to keep progress from destroying them.  I have sold, traded and bartered many bottles but it was because I had doubles or my collection was changing or I just didn't collect the type but I am sure not a treasure hunter or thief. _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to digger mcdirt) Post #: 50

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 4:50:56 PM    digger mcdirt   Posts: 804 Joined: 8/8/2005 Status: offline Yes I hate a one sided story. But I do think as bad as I hate to admit it the state does hold the Ace in this Case. I think the State could care less about the site but the loud mouth has opened a can of worms. And when it comes down to right vs wrong state will win in this case. I served 15 years as a Police Officer and Investigator and have served 12 years in City Gov. Destruction of state property is serious it is not like private property. Two different things we must keep in mind. State property is public property but not when it comes to destruction two different things. On pvt property you are charged with tresspassing and in some cases destruction. State is much more involved there are laws that most of us do not even know are on the books in cases like this (ALSO SOME FEDERAL LAWS THEY CAN BRING UP). Tennessee has some bad fine print laws on State Property and that includes the river banks. I have seen what they can do 1st hand if they push. Best thing I say is out of sight out of mind let it die down and go away. Time will allow it to be forgotten. We had the same thing happen here years ago and today you can hunt the site if you want to fly low below the Radar but for many years the Police watched it like a Hawk. Back then the more people said the more the pot got stirred and the worse it got. The local bottle club even took out a ad but that just made it worse. I agree the other side needs to be presented but man I would not tell anyone I was the one in there digging. I would not want to be the Fall Guy they need.   _____________________________ McDirt (in reply to capsoda) Post #: 51

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 4:57:35 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline The point of the letter was not to one up him or see if he can slam me.  I was simply writing to bitch about his one sided story.   Most of what he wrote was jiberish blah, blah, blahhhh.   By no means would I want to talk to him if I were digging there, that would be suicide.    I've never seen the site but I do know of a few people that have dug there.  They are good people and I know they do not deserve to be labeled as criminals.    It's too bad this ignorant reporter chose to write such a one sided story.  He must be a newbie. Joel _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 52

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 5:11:59 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2020 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline The real question is....Can you Desicrate a dump? The land has already been destroyed when they started dumping there. That would be like saying when you tear down a dilapidated house you are destroying it. Are you destroying or actually cleaning it up? _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 53

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 5:24:32 PM    bttlmark   Posts: 402 Joined: 11/23/2005 From: N.E. Florida Status: offline His letter explains why the story went from the homeless to bottle diggers. From his prior education he knew the digging story would shine brighter and hopefully cause some controversy,he is likely the person who notified the Arch. and he will feed off all comers to be more succesful. It will go away and in a few years it will again be dug. (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 54

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 5:37:32 PM    digger mcdirt   Posts: 804 Joined: 8/8/2005 Status: offline I totally agree with all. I say they will do an investigation bring in the feds (which they have now done with the EPA)  post it and dare someone to come in there for a while. The poor fool who gets caught will be the one to pay the price. I wouldn't be caught near it. I agree with Maine Pontil I don't like the 1 sided slam dunk they did. But the Ace here is state and illegal just makes a bad combo. I agree it will be dug again just let it sit awhile and grow up then under the radar digs will happen. I know some of the guys who live up in that area and they are smart they will do what we did in the 80's let it go for as long as it takes. The state guy was a jerk everyone agrees and we all know what we do and why we do it most are like me not for the money but for the love of history and the thrill of pulling a 100+ year old piece out of the earth. I am proud of our hobby and what we do. _____________________________ McDirt (in reply to bttlmark) Post #: 55

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 6:07:33 PM    zanes_antiques Posts: 2020 Joined: 9/3/2006 From: Steubenville, Ohio Status: offline How about they prosecute the entity who dumped there in the first place.  _____________________________ I buy, sell, barter, and beg....Zane (in reply to digger mcdirt) Post #: 56

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/22/2006 7:18:44 PM    adshepard   Posts: 182 Joined: 8/11/2004 Status: offline The situation is familiar to most of us that scuba dive for bottles and artifacts.  The state and the feds frown on divers taking things from "historical" wrecks.  The archaeologists bemoan the retrieval of artifacts on wrecks they'll never visit.  They feel any "antiquity" is their property and would let it languish on the bottom forever rather than see the light of day by the hand of a recreational scuba diver.  This goes for even the most common objects that they already have recovered time and time again.  I've met with Connecticut's State Archaeologist and he has a holier than thou attitude when it comes to "old" stuff. Best policy is to not advertise what you're doing and where you're doing it.  Lay low on this site for a bit too. Of course even better would be to dig only on land you have permission to dig. (in reply to subsoil) Post #: 57

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/23/2006 1:03:40 AM    Genno62   Posts: 224 Joined: 6/20/2006 From: Lewistown, PA. Status: offline Hey guys bottom line is!!!!!!!!! I say Let us diggers deal with the glass and pottery! The Arceologist deal with the BONES!!!!LOL!~ (in reply to earlyglass) Post #: 58

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/23/2006 3:08:47 AM    druggistnut Posts: 312 Joined: 1/7/2006 Status: offline I wrote to Eric Baxter of the Manchester Express, requesting that he put my submission in his paper, as a guest writer. The letter is below. I say that we cannot gripe, complain or bitch unless we offer a possible solution. Don't you get tired of hearing people complain, and then not get involved, or take a stand? Our government officials recognize a well-organized, concerted effort by citizens and respect that voice. We need to address this issue as individuals and as part of a collective. Bill _________________________ Mr. Baxter,I am the president of the Flint, Michigan Antique Bottle/Collectible Club. This club is a long standing affiliate  of the Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors.  Please read the code of ethics the Federation endorses and stands behind. www.fohbc.com   I have been digging/diving for/collecting, buying and selling bottles for over 30 years. My words are not endorsed or supported in any official manner by the FOHBC or the Flint Antique Bottle/Collectible Club. This letter is in reference to the 1800's Manchester dump controversy, currently being investigated and written about by The Manchester Express. The property and digging in dispute bring to light many issues, of which I shall only touch upon a few. If you want to read a large amount of blog/posted entries regarding this issue (by diggers), let me know. Keep in mind, many of us (diggers/collectors) also are degreed professionals. Most of us conduct our digging in an ethical, responsible manner. That does not mean that I feel the folks who have dug there in Manchester for the past 40 years plus are not ethical, nor irresponsible. We are, first of all, referring to a VAST pile of TRASH. This is not a small dump behind a historically significant piece of property or building. The contents of said trash heap were put there because no one wanted them. This trash came from homes, businesses and the very government that the outraged state archeologist works for. The items coming from the ground include chunks of metal, glass, bricks, rocks and anything else that wasn't able to decompose over the past 100 years. Many of these items support the homeless when sold for scrap metal or to collectors. These items support one of the largest hobbies in this country (bottle collecting).  They are also, more importantly, being exposed to the light of day and the inquisitive minds of the public.  Please, I implore you, show me evidence of one, just ONE, huge 1880's era city dump, that ANY State allowed large sums of taxpayer money to be squandered on, in an "archeological dig."  This is not a colonial American, civil war era or by any stretch of the imagination, remotely financially feasible site for any taxpayer sponsored dig. This is a site that is left alone by the state, as they don't want to expend money removing it. I would suggest that the state archeologist truly represent the interests and pocketbook of the vast majority of the state constituents (who could give a rip about the issue) and use his time in a more constructive manner.  Many of us in the bottle hobby have devoted countless hours (at no expense to anyone, except ourselves) giving talks on bottle making, placing displays in public libraries and historical societies and making donations of many of our dug items to said historical societies. What we see from many archeologists (I personally know four) that we befriend, is a propensity for a private "hoard" of historical items, in their own homes. These items are not on display, for the taxpaying public to see and learn from. They are being "guarded" by the self-appointed looters (emphasis by this writer) of the public "property."Where was this man when the freeway overpass was allowed to be constructed over and through this important historical site? I say, place an informal poll in your paper and let the people speak. Are they more concerned about the ramifications of the homeless people along the river, the "looting" of the historically questionable trash pile (as proscribed by the archeologist), the untold amounts of carcinogenic waste being "legally" dumped in the river, or the arrogance of one public servant, professing to speak for each of them? Let the voice of the citizens and reason control this debate, as our founding fathers advocated. Our ancestors came here to escape the grasp of an unpeopled government. Don't continue to allow it to occur today.Respectfully submitted,William (Bill) HeatleyOtisville, Michigan (in reply to Mainepontil) Post #: 59

RE: New Hampshire Bans Digging... Starting Now? - 12/23/2006 4:39:49 AM    TROG   Posts: 229 Joined: 9/27/2004 From: Australia Status: offline Very well said Bill, And now for this , Archaeology is actually as much about destruction as preservation? A site has to be destroyed in order for it to be excavated. _____________________________ AMERICAN POT LIDS WANTED (in reply to druggistnut) Post #: 60

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