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All Forums >> [Miscellaneous] >> SCAMS and FRAUDS >> RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting

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RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/25/2006 5:39:04 PM    appliedtop   Posts: 45 Joined: 12/19/2006 Status: offline Yeah it's going high all right.  Hmmm, funny how the current high bidder has only 1 feedback from someone who goes by bottle-tumbler. Hmmm (in reply to Bottle tumbler) Post #: 21

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/25/2006 7:49:50 PM    blueglass1   Posts: 10 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: offline Hello Bottle tumbler....this is Marlena...blueglassibugcollector. I decided to join the forum and get closer to the source of things. I'm keeping a close account of things as they continue to develop. .. and making some enquiries here and there. I certainly hope you haven't been  the one busily promoting your original  (earlier) proposed master-scheme to have a frontman using the new ebayer name of Martell1958  or the other to serve as a scapegoat for your evil deeds. If this is the case...hell....why not do it to all the auction items...or better yet do it to sirmarkw the initial  motherlode of all this. You know I've been the one to honestly lay it all out on the table. Nothing sereptitious at all on my plate. But if you really are the one behind all of this and creating this horror...  your house of cards is already beginning to tumble , Be careful it doesn't fall back on top of you or maybe it's  already too late. You can tell your front-man or if it's really you that you can safely retract your fake bid and all will return to normal ...or play it up to the end and deal with the eventual consequence. You've made your point for everyone to see. You can be proud of your brilliant acheivement, But suggest you withdraw your bid(s) while the going is still good. If I have wrongly accused you i apologize...but if i'm right...well..... <unbolded> < Message edited by Admin -- 12/26/2006 4:07:57 AM > (in reply to Bottle tumbler) Post #: 22

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/25/2006 8:21:49 PM    Calico   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/27/2006 Status: offline I don't claim to know anything about the authenticity of these items and I certainly don't condone selling anything that isn't authentic. I also don't agree with any form of auction interference, for whatever reason. Having been a seller on Ebay since '97 I do have to ask this question. If you are worried about your highest bidder why don't you just cancel their bids and only allow bids from people with more than 10 pos. Feedback ? Just a thought. < Message edited by Calico -- 12/25/2006 8:23:35 PM > (in reply to blueglass1) Post #: 23

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/25/2006 8:41:43 PM    blueglass1   Posts: 10 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: offline Thanks for your input. Not a bad suggestion in normal circumstances...but this auction is far from normal and I wan't to let it run its course so that if there is fraud involved the perpetrators can be effectively dealt with <unbolded> < Message edited by Admin -- 12/26/2006 4:08:35 AM > (in reply to Calico) Post #: 24

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/26/2006 10:35:58 AM    Calico   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/27/2006 Status: offline Do you really think that Ebay or any law enforcement agency is going to go after the high bidder if they decide not to pay ???No.What WILL happen is you'll have get charged a Final Value Fee on $10.000+ and then have to wait Ebay's required amount of time to file a Non-paying Bidder dispute.Then you'll get your fees reimbursed to the amount of the next highest bidder and who knows if they will actually follow through. You seem to have decent feedback although most is for buying, not selling.  I ask you this: Why would you risk your reputation, not to mention the ethics involved, by allowing this auction to continue ?You state in your disclaimer you're not sure of the authenticity of these bottles, yet you would allow someone to bid it to over $10.000 and would take the money in the end, even though you claim not to know the true history.They are basing their bid amounts on the description YOU provide, disclaimer or not. How can you in good conscience take the money after all this controversy ?Shame on you. (in reply to blueglass1) Post #: 25

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/26/2006 11:37:41 AM    adshepard   Posts: 182 Joined: 8/11/2004 Status: offline Here is a link to a page with a photo of an actual Revolutionary War boarding grenade. http://www.big-ordnance.com/grenades/grenades1.htm Doesn't look like those glass things does it? Alan (in reply to blueglass1) Post #: 26

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/26/2006 1:54:31 PM    capsoda Posts: 7703 Joined: 11/15/2005 From: Seminole,Alabama, USA Status: offline Glad you found that Alan. This is the pic I saw of a boarding grenade. Picture cropped and reduced in size - please see Help - Using the Forum ---> Uploading a Picture  - Admin Attachment (1) < Message edited by Admin -- 12/26/2006 2:45:49 PM > _____________________________ Warren Diggin down in Dixie, USA Work is for people who don't dig bottles President, Panhandle Cruisers http://www.panhandlecruisers.org/ (in reply to adshepard) Post #: 27

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/26/2006 2:13:59 PM    GuntherHess Posts: 4902 Joined: 12/13/2004 From: Frederick Maryland Status: online In researching this I have read a couple accounts of improvised bombs being made out of old wine bottles during that period so the idea in general isnt too far fetched. As with "improvised" weapons,  the materials used were those on hand. The problem with some of the items I saw for sell on ebay was they didnt appear to be from the advertised period based on thier characteristics, color, style, wear, etc. As a seller of bottles on ebay it always concerns me when there are fake or misrepresented items being sold. It affects the already suspect reputation of ebay as a sales venue. Just an opinion  _____________________________ Looking for Frederick Maryland and Dr Fahrney Bottles 2008 Medicine Bottle Price Guide on CDROM http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/BottleBook2008.htm email http://www.mattsoldhouse.com/MC/bottles/email.jpg (in reply to adshepard) Post #: 28

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/26/2006 2:18:29 PM    huffmnd   Posts: 372 Joined: 8/8/2005 From: Sparta Tennessee Status: offline To those that are concerned about these auctions. I am not taking sides in this matter but I am stating that what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.  If somebody tries to sell something and is mistaken, the right thing to do is to contact them and notify them of the mistake and give them the resources that they need in order to correct it. Without the proper information they will have no way of knowing whether you are correct or not and they won't, in most cases know what to do. Such as pulling the listing or allowing the listing to continue.   If you are trying to help the person do so in an appropriate way, give them the information that they need and be polite and considerate of the person. THIS IS THE RIGHT AND CORRECT WAY!  Now if a person is purposely trying to scam somebody the answer is still the same. Give them the information that would be needed to inform them of the mistake or possible scam and be polite and considerate. No matter which of the two instances it may be it does not matter, ALWAYS do the right thing. I am not trying dictate anyone's actions, I am just stating that if the wrong thing is done and it is instigated from the forum what does this tell everyone else about us as a group? A persons reputation means a great deal and we should keep this in mind as we conduct ourselves daily. A good reputation is easy to establish by always doing the right thing and if we make a mistake we must do the right thing to correct it. A bad reputation will follow you for a very long time and it is extremely difficult to ammend. The reputation of the forum could be at risk if we allow the wrong things to be promoted through the forum. The risk of conducting a fraud is one thing when it comes to it being on someone else, but let's not get caught up in a counterfraud and make ourselves as bad if not worse than the original. Again I am not taking sides and I am not trying to tell anybody what to do, that is up to us all as individuals. Just please keep the right thing in mind in what ever you do at all times. JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER. (in reply to adshepard) Post #: 29

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/26/2006 3:48:30 PM    cowseatmaize Posts: 2135 Joined: 12/2/2004 From: Metro West, MA Status: offline Hey, I'm listing one soon. I think it will go like this... As a bottle collector I always wondered what these were used for, they were for a time considered a flask with origins in Persia. Then later thought of as possibly Spanish or even Austrian by one more recent count. No one quite seamed to know for sure. The time frame was always the same, mid 1700’s to the early 1800’s. Now it appears that these and all bottles similar were made in Mexico. Who knew??? One thing has come out of all the controversy is the actual use. These are certainly "saddle sweeper" bottles. Pirates used them to clear saddles off of Naval Oranges before boarding them. Remember, bid often and bid high, thank you. Even with all the talk I don't think it's beyond the realm of posability that glass was used as grenades. I've been to a site on weapons of pirates and it does mention it. I say let the buyer buy but beware at the same time. _____________________________ My 10¢ worth (inflation) Eric If you love what your doing it might be illegal, so watch your back. (in reply to huffmnd) Post #: 30

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - 12/26/2006 11:03:59 PM    blueglass1   Posts: 10 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: offline  Regarding the subject of the Boarding Weapon/ Deck Sweeper issue..Bottle-tumbler recently posted..(which  is  in the process of being removed for legal  implications)....quote: bottle-tumbler, Noxen.P Okay here is my radical view!! why not use another ebay id, run it up to, lets say 20 grand, tell him you have to get it cleared by the bank so it will take 7 to 10 days to get the check, then when they email you about the money tell him you had a heart attack or something that caused the delay and you sent it out today. Now by this time hopefully if you bid at the tight time he will have paid the fees on it. the only thing he can do is ask for a refund, and give your other ebay user id a bad feed back. If i had 2 other people willing to do this I would be high bidder no problem. I would run them suckers up to 30 grand, i hate liers fakes and greedy people!!!!!!!! ............................................................ In response to all of this I had an email from an ebay  collector who suggested the following: I suggest you make a print out of the bottle forum conversations. The conversations can be edited by Bottle-tumbler the creater and he may get in and change the wording to protect himself. I didn't think to tell you this when I sent you the link. I don't like the listings but they crossed the line by trying to hurt you and a lot of us bottle people feel this way. They took it way too far My response to him was simple... printed below.. (and is hopefully the final gesture to  Botttle-tumbler who  is deemed to be the initial conspirer of interfering with a  legal ebay auction)..... Thanks ----------------... I have Bottle -tumblers original transcript ....and it is now in the process of being  taken it off .. (it's awaiting approval) it says. But several hours ago I wrote to the forum management and  essentially suggested to them that under US Federal Trade Law it is illegal to  suggest , promote or conspire publicly - (verbally or otherwise) regarding interference in a registered live public auction proceeding. I  let him know I did this. Now even though the original message has been erased now either by the forum moderators or by Bottle-tumbler himself...it really doesn't matter... as I already have all the transcripts printed out long ago just in case something comes of it all. But I doubt it.  I don't really care all that much. I just hate bullies, brutes, gangters and mob mentality in general.  I know you don't like the listings but I think it has actually ended up to be a good lesson for all...and in my own defense I have essentially disqualified the bottles from being called Deck Sweepers in spite of the title which I can't change. I didn't want to change it. It would have been too easy...How else could I ever have brought the rats out of their nests?? Unlike sirmarkw who doesn't seem to give a flying f--- what people think... I have  done what I could and stood my ground against a group of nasty neanderthals.  Ebay has been notified about the 3 known culprits and have emailed me back regarding all 3.We are now just waiting it out as the auctions proceed legally to see if they feel they have created enough flack and will let it be.. or if they want to get down and dirty for final round.  But this time I have a better ace up my sleeve.Many thanks  Marlena  Regarding other peoples comments here and there... (some folks from this very forum.) To those of you who showed  me kindness and a willingness to understand and suggest peaceful mature solutions..thankyou   <formating edit>   < Message edited by Admin -- 12/27/2006 3:26:08 AM > (in reply to tigermaple1855) Post #: 31

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting - 12/27/2006 12:06:05 AM    blueglass1   Posts: 10 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: offline  Calico..My reputation stands on its own ground based on a record of honesty and good service.  It doesn't matter if i've bought more than i've sold. I still have sold plenty and have excellent feedback except for 7 issues with total idiots over the last few years.  Whether a person has bought more or sold more is irrelevent in my opinion  in addressing this topic. I have no fear of losing my reputation and don't take kindly to inference that it could be in danger...especially since  i made the right and only choice to publish all comments on both sides of the fence so that bidders could make up their own minds about what they wanted to believe or decide on. They are all adults and able to read  English. Its plain to see to anyone who has read all the comments on the auction carefully that the disclaimer I printed clearly states that the so called experts say the bottles are 1970's Mexico. If someone still decides to bid a high price on it that is up to them ..not you. It's their money ..not yours. If i took the stand that sirmarkw has taken and that is to ignore everybody and just continue to sell them as deck sweepers then I could believe you would  have the right to say to me (as you have done) Shame on you...but really the shame is on you for being so unwilling or perhaps unable to see the real picture here . There is no way i would end the auctions.. as it interferes with the natural evolution of free enterprise. By ending the auction early to satisfy the cravings of a few purists you would damage the process of allowing all the underlying fear, paranoia, hate, love, knowlege, opinions, and all of it..the whole schmear from surfacing, festering, blowing up, healing and ending as it should....with the one final  winner ...armed with new knowledge...better vision and insight to his fellow collectors... and the only one who walks home with his prize. His bottle. Something he/she loves... something he/ she is happy to own in spite of all the garbage.. that has been heaped on it. <format edit>  < Message edited by Admin -- 12/27/2006 3:27:55 AM > (in reply to Calico) Post #: 32

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/27/2006 12:13:14 AM    blueglass1   Posts: 10 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: offline  cowseatmaize.... in your desire to be humorous your comment is somewhat sarcastic and definitley facetious . It misses the real issue. It is of no value in the learning process as it offers no enrichment to the discussions.  If i have misunderstood your intent please feel free to discuss it further. Thanks  Marlena   <format edit> < Message edited by Admin -- 12/27/2006 3:29:36 AM > (in reply to cowseatmaize) Post #: 33

RE: boarding vessel bottles? - REAL photo - 12/27/2006 4:06:10 AM    Admin   Posts: 173 Joined: 10/21/2002 From: Near London England Status: offline This thread has the potential to decline in value and as the main points have already been covered by both sides it has been locked to further posts. - Admin (in reply to blueglass1) Post #: 34

All Forums >> [Miscellaneous] >> SCAMS and FRAUDS >> RE: boarding vessel bottles? - something interesting

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