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All Forums >> [Miscellaneous] >> SCAMS and FRAUDS >> "Zapped" bottles

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"Zapped" bottles - 6/21/2004 8:05:33 AM    Tandy   Posts: 280 Joined: 6/19/2004 From: Netherby, South Australia Status: offline Greetings from South Australia. A frequently occurring scam practiced here is the "zapped" bottle. When exposed to sunlight, many bottles made 1895-1915 will turn violet, but the violet is never extremely dark: bottles zapped with UV radiation tend to be a really intense black-violet. They are not the product of long years in the sun. Tandy, South Australia Post #: 1

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/22/2004 5:36:09 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline Sometimes amethyst glass get's very dark from the sun it depends on how much Manganese Oxide is in it, I have a few dark amethyst bottles that are sun coloured. I agree that it should always be clear to the buyer if they are getting a "zapped" bottle, it's mostly a trap for the less experienced collectors as it's normaly not hard to tell natural coloured glass from zapped just by the colour and tones. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 2

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/22/2004 9:28:51 AM    Tandy   Posts: 280 Joined: 6/19/2004 From: Netherby, South Australia Status: offline Thanks Irish. Talking about bottles coloured by the sun, some years ago I found a "black" bottle, base upwards in the mud of a small lake, with a distinct cobalt blue patch on the exposed base. Any thoughts as to why this occurred? Tandy, Adelaide. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 3

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/22/2004 5:58:07 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1160 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Hey guys and gals, I have a question . This bottle is the real deal. (Not Zapped) I know because I dug it myself in a virgin pit circa 1880's. It looks to me to be about the same color as one that would have been blasted heavily with UV. Is this color of glass somewhat a rarity for glass made pre 1900? I have seen numerous SCA. bottles, but I can't recall seeing any this deep of a shade of purple except for one other USA Hosp. bottle that my buddie has. I was just curious if purple was common. Thanks, Kelley Attachment (1) (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 4

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/22/2004 6:00:38 PM    woody   Posts: 1658 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: offline It's amethyst glass and it is not very common. Some people call it black glass as you have to hold it to a strong light to see the deep purple color. Nice bottle, Kelley _____________________________ Woody (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 5

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/23/2004 12:01:10 AM    Harry Pristis   Posts: 495 Joined: 7/24/2003 From: Northcentral Florida Status: offline It is a nice bottle, Kelley. Amethyst-color utility bottles are not common. Main Entry: manganese dioxide Function: noun Date: 1882 : a dark insoluble compound MnO2 used especially as an oxidizing agent, as a depolarizer of dry cells, and in making glass and ceramics As I understand it, MnO2 became the widely-used decolorizer in about 1880. It remained popular until WW1 blocked imports. When MnO2 became available again, it had been supplanted by other decolorizers, notably selenium. "Black amethyst" is a useful term. Here is a pic of a black amethyst demijohn from my web-site. The bottle glass permits little light to pass through. This image was made with a 500w photography lamp. ---------------Harry Pristis Attachment (1) _____________________________ ______________________________________________ Visit The Demijohn Page at: http://members.aol.com/pristis/index.html (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 6

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 6/23/2004 3:22:29 PM    Gunsmoke47 Posts: 1160 Joined: 12/29/2003 From: TEXAS Status: offline Thank you Woody and Harry. When I first dug this, it was so sick, I thought it was just an unembossed, amber medicine so I put it in my closet of "non particular interesting bottles." I happened to catch the light just right one evening and could see some of the true color so I tumbled it.... Black Amethyst, it surely is a pretty color. Happy Diggin, Kelley (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 7

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/3/2004 6:28:29 PM    Carmo   Posts: 89 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: offline Hi All Went to a show recently where a collector was displaying a blue/milky glass codd. The bottle was dug in a tip that had been very hot, it originally appeared brown and then he had it polished and it turned out this blue/milky glass colour. The collector beleives that it is geniune as it has been done by natural causes- fire! I wonder if he beleives the same about cracked or broken bottles caused by the natural phenomenon - gravity! Carmo (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 8

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/3/2004 8:53:31 PM    David E Posts: 995 Joined: 5/24/2004 Status: offline I am not so sure that UV is the proper term for a form of zapping. The sun obmits Ultra Violet Rays, which are what turns the old bottles. I have heard Xray and even radiation, I guess by putting it under one of the machines that hospitals use to treat cancer. But last I heard nobody knew how they were doing it, some thought under the xray dentists use. You can sun color a piece of the old glass with the use of a 25Watt GE Germicital light. And it can be controled to keep it lighter or darker depending on amount of maganse or lenght of time under a light. There is no difference between the sunglass, from the real sun or the germicital lamp. Doctors use this light to sterilize their instruments. Dave (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 9

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/4/2004 3:26:00 AM    Carmo   Posts: 89 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: offline I new a bloke in Sydney who got bottles zapped, it was done at a food processing plant. The only problem was that some bottles came out purple and some a brown. I also know another bloke who ruined (in my opinion) good bottles by giving them to this bloke to be zapped. We do not see much of it these days in oz, as the bloke who done it is out of the scene. carmo (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 10

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/5/2004 11:55:53 AM    Maine Digger   Posts: 823 Joined: 2/4/2004 From: Augusta, Maine Status: offline Over the weekend I saw a 'Rare Purple Coke' up for auction. This was not a straight sided bottle, rather one of the clear hobbleskirt produced in the 60s/70s - There was 7 bids on it - forgot what the $ was, but it was an obvious 'zapped' bottle _____________________________ Norm Miller (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 11

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/5/2004 3:29:55 PM    BARQS19   Posts: 433 Joined: 6/4/2004 From: Brooklyn, Mississippi Status: offline Interesting. Was there some way some of these bottles could actually turn these colors without the help of a device? I met a guy at the Las Vegas bottle show back in Feb. who collected nothing but colored contour Coca Cola bottles. Thought it was interesting though. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 12

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/5/2004 3:38:16 PM    BARQS19   Posts: 433 Joined: 6/4/2004 From: Brooklyn, Mississippi Status: offline Norm, what was the item # for that bottle or do you remember? I saw a 1915 purple bottle on there but not the one you're talking about. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 13

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/5/2004 8:16:06 PM    Maine Digger   Posts: 823 Joined: 2/4/2004 From: Augusta, Maine Status: offline I don't believe it was eBay, it was another site selling coke products. I was doing a search for the coke Soda Water bottle I picked up last weekend, and happened across the page in question. I haven't found it again yet, but will let you know when I do. Coke bottles DO NOT naturally turn to deep purple! They have to be 'zapped' to attain that look. Even the 1915 hobbleskirt you refer to has been zapped. There's a lot of informative coke sites that tell buyers to beware of these bottles. _____________________________ Norm Miller (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 14

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 7/6/2004 12:55:44 AM    BARQS19   Posts: 433 Joined: 6/4/2004 From: Brooklyn, Mississippi Status: offline I did not know that. I will keep that in mind from now on. No more purple Coke bottles. How would you know (and have you ever seen it) if someone got a clear/aqua SS coke bottle and turned it amber? How could you tell the difference between a real amber SS coke and a "zapped" SS amber coke? I have seen a amber Dr. Pepper Thief bottle before. I've also seen a purple Dr. Pepper thief bottle as well. I knew those two were made up. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 15

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 8/22/2004 12:45:28 AM    strataman4   Posts: 6 Joined: 7/15/2004 Status: offline Hello All, I had a question about turning bottles artificially to amethyst color. Does anyone know if the UV light is short wavelength or long wavelength? I know this makes a huge difference in making a flourescent rock such as calcite to glow. I work in a microbiology laboratory and we have a UV light and wanted to try it sometime with a bottle. Also would you say it would take minutes or hours under artificial UV to make the bottle turn amethyst? I am just being the curious scientist :) Thanks, Strataman (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 16

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 8/22/2004 2:19:45 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline G'day strataman4, welcome to the forum. I really don't know but I suspect both would do the job, may be an interesting experiment to find out . (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 17

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 8/22/2004 11:20:14 AM    LaidBackJack   Posts: 64 Joined: 8/4/2004 Status: offline There's no qualitative difference between using the sun, or a UV lamp, except the time involved. The sun can take years, a lamp takes a week or two. I routinely "zap" common bottles, in lots, because I noticed that they sell better at my yard sales & flea markets. Basically it turns $1 bottles into $2 bottles (or more) when you're dealing with the non-collector general public. I don't zap the goodies, unless I'm going to keep them, because I prefer color to clear for my displayed bottles. There's an infinite variety of shades of amethyst, and it's just fun to see what shade a particular bottle will turn. There is also, apparently, a technique which will turn some old clear glass a rose color. It involves placing the item inside a nuclear reactor & exposing it to gamma rays, according to my informant. Of course, how many people have access to a nuclear reactor? but I've seen the supposed results, and it's very beautiful, but of course any really rose-colored old glass is going to be rare as hen's teeth & automatically suspect if it represented a one-of-a-kind situation. The same guy showed me how to reverse the process, by simply putting the item in an oven & slowly heating it to 400* or so. This will return an artificially rose-tinted glass object to clear glass. As far as I know, sun tinted amethyst glass is irreversible. Problem is, if you did have a rose-colored bottle, would you want to risk sticking it in an oven to find out if it was fake? (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 18

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 9/23/2004 12:27:35 PM    dpbottleman   Posts: 10 Joined: 9/20/2004 From: Texas Status: offline About 10-12 months ago, someone from the Georgia/Alabama area was zapping th 30-40's clear Dr Pepper bottles, and turning them amber and selling them for a couple of hundres of dollars, this was a ripoff. Dr Pepper never had amber bottles of any kind. (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 19

RE: "Zapped" bottles - 1/22/2005 1:12:17 PM    GlassWorx   Posts: 9 Joined: 1/22/2005 Status: offline I don't understand why people are upset by this? There's really no difference except in depth of the coloring. I sell heavy on ebay, though I don't colorize my old bottles, (I have a few in direct sun) This takes a time and patience. Bottles "zapped" by food plants are hit with a little more than UVA, I believe there's some gamma involved as their aim is to destroy e-coli, botulism and salmonella (which kills between 800-4200 people a year in the USA depending on who you listen to) I like the lighter tints, as the deep zapped ones just look like fakes to me. Like Wheatons Gone Wild or something.Between the years of 1880-1915, the majority of <i>clear</i> bottles<br>were made that way by the addition of manganese<br> (primarily, but sometimes mixed with or supplanted by selenium, depending on supply)<br>into the original glass batch.<br>The manganese in the glass turns <font color=purple><b>purple</b></font> when long term exposure to UVA oxidizes its ions.<br>When the manganese is added to the original glass batch, the 2000-2500F temperature pushes the ions into a reduced state.<br>Now <i>clear</i> glass isn't really clear either.<br>It's actually a balance of colors canceling each other out.<br>A normal batch of 1800's glass, would usually run the gamut of colors from blue to green,<br>due to iron and other impurities in the glass.<br>The manganese would <i>cancel this out</i> by throwing yellow, red and amethyst/purple into the mix.<br>It's not really clear glass, it just looks like it to human eyes.<br>It's interesting to note a lot of other mammals wouldn't see a clear bottle as clear.<br>This is also why some digital cameras <br>pick up an off colored tint in clear glass, when the light is right.<br>In 1915 the manganese supply to the good old USA was sort of TFU'd by World War One<br>as we got most of it from the Kaiser's home country of Germany.<br>Pretty much after that it was all selenium, until the 1930's<br> when it was discovered that it was even more cost effective to use straight arsenic<br>(not too mention more tasty, especially in those soda and food bottles)<br>Selenium changes for the same reasons, to yellows, browns and some neat off tints.<br>In closing, I'll tell you this last bit of interesting info.<br>If you slowly reheated a sun-colored bottle to around 1000 degrees, it would take the color right back out of it.<br>That's something I try not to do however.<br>I only have one bottle that ever gets close to flames, and it's protected by a thick coating of resin<br>(I mean axle-grease)<p>Rob Mooers, GlassWorx - Sanford, Maine (in reply to Tandy) Post #: 20

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