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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Cleaning and Repairing >> Muriatic Watch Out

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Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 1:30:53 AM    Leisalu   Posts: 35 Joined: 7/6/2004 From: Northern California Status: offline I've read some post were folks believe muriatic is safe and won't harm glass. For the most part that is true but it will ruin Black Glass even if it's heavily diluted. I left 3 1860s blacks I dug in a bucket that was diluted 20 to 1 for three days. On the third day when I removed them they were heavily etched from the acid. I should of learned but I tried again with a black glass Hostetter's I dug. This time I left the Hostetter's in the muriatic 20 to 1 bath for only 1 hour trying to loosen some inside crud. When I removed it I could see where the glass was starting to etch from the acid. Luckily I didn't leave it any longer. Always keep it covered even when heavily diluted. The vapors from the acid will cause metal to rust up to 20 feet away. _____________________________ 40 years of California digging ! www.oldwestbottles.com Post #: 1

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 3:49:20 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline Hi Leisalu, welcome to the forum. Your HydroChloric acid is probably contaminated with a small amount of HydroFluoric Acid, not uncommon in acid made by some manufacturing processes. Pure Hydrochloric won't (can't) erode glass, what it can do however is eat out Alkaline crud and "sickness" that has actually eroded into the glass, it may look ok until the acid eches it back to solid glass. (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 2

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 12:05:14 PM    Bottle Diver   Posts: 52 Joined: 6/29/2004 Status: offline Hi Irish, I just switched to muriatic acid to get sea growth off my bottles, I used to use vinegar. I usually buy it from Kent Building supplies, (I don't know if you have that in the States, but it is a big building supply store chain in Canada). Should that be pure muriatic? Is there anyway to tell what companies may sell the slightly "contaminated" mixtures you mentioned? I find a fair amount of black glass diving and would hate to see it ruined, would you suggest going back to vinegar for these bottles just to be safe? Thanks (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 3

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 12:56:38 PM    Leisalu   Posts: 35 Joined: 7/6/2004 From: Northern California Status: offline quote: Hydrochloric Hydrochloric and Muriatic are not the same thing. I was using Muriatic diluted 20 to 1. This happened with two differnt batches almost 3 years apart from two different suppliers. It will etch black glass beyond just eating the scale off. It may be that it only eats certain kinds of black bottles. If I would of left my black Hostetter's in the bath overnight it would of been ruined. I've had great results with using it on all other types of glass with no problems. (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 4

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 3:31:52 PM    Bottle Diver   Posts: 52 Joined: 6/29/2004 Status: offline I was wondering about the Hydrochloric/Muriatic thing, I just assumed he new something I didn't! Alright, well I guess that answers my question, I will switch back to vinegar for any future black glass finds, it takes a bit longer but still does a great job. Thanks for the "heads-up" on the muriatic Leisalu! (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 5

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 3:46:56 PM    Maine Digger   Posts: 823 Joined: 2/4/2004 From: Augusta, Maine Status: offline I've been using a 'safe' muriatic acid sold by Aubuchon Hardware. It doesn't burn your skin, but should not be breathed! The fumes rusted the entire top of my table saw in my basement. It has worked pretty well on my bottles with stuburn stains. _____________________________ Norm Miller (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 6

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 7:51:56 PM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline Hydrochloric and Muriatic ARE the same thing unless you have a different acid sold under that name in the states, very unlikely . Muriatic acid is an old name for it and chemicaly incorrect but still used by a lot of manufacturers. There is a pdf file with infoHERE and a MSDS HERE that will give you all the info you need, they also both clearly state that Muriatic is another name for Hydrochloric as will any basic chemistry textbook . Bottle Diver, Your Hydrochloric acid should be ok, if you get a batch with Hydrofloric in it (I've never had any in mine and I use a lot) you could remove it by standing the acid for a few days in a glass jar full of clean broken glass. < Message edited by IRISH -- 7/7/2004 9:03:02 PM > (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 7

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 9:10:09 PM    Leisalu   Posts: 35 Joined: 7/6/2004 From: Northern California Status: offline Irish; Okay it's time for me to eat my words, gulp. Your 100% correct in saying that the two acids are the same thing. A quick search on the net confirmed what you said. Thank you for pointing that out, I always thought there were different. I still however believe that it will etch certain black bottles as I've seen it happen first hand. Maybe the batch was contaminated but it happened with two separate batches from two different suppliers. I'd still caution folks about using it on a good black bottle, why take the chance. Another product I found that works well on certain things is a product in the States called "Lime Away". Comes in a green plastic squeeze bottle that can be bought almost anywhere. Someone on a post even suggested Listerine if you can believe that. (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 8

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/7/2004 9:15:32 PM    Maine Digger   Posts: 823 Joined: 2/4/2004 From: Augusta, Maine Status: offline Hi Leisalu - Believe us, we believe you about the Listerine We had quite a thread a while back about Listerine, it actually works, but there's a lot more economical ways to go. _____________________________ Norm Miller (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 9

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 7/11/2004 4:12:21 AM    bigkitty53   Posts: 286 Joined: 3/28/2004 From: Bermuda Status: offline Hi Leisalu, Welcome to the the forum! I have to agree with Irish; Your muriatic acid might have been contaminated with Hydroflouric acid.I have have been using muriatic acid for cleaning coral,barnacles,etc. of off old BLACK glass bottles for over 25 years without etching a single one.And that is using a 3 to 1 concentration! I must say though,I only have the bottle in solution as long as it takes to disolve the calcite,usually 2-6 minutes, not hours.Also,sometimes glass sickness can make black glass look etched.Acid won't remove the sickness but can make it noticable by removing the crud that's hiding it! A couple of possible explanations to your experiences. Glad you were able to save the Hostetter's! KAT (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 10

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/7/2004 10:29:52 PM    Dive4bottles   Posts: 14 Joined: 10/7/2004 From: Seattle Status: offline I'm getting some mixed messages on the use of Muriatic acid to get sea growth off bottles. I purchased a bottle of it but woman of the house would not allow it's use anywhere on the premises. I was just going to go ahead and set up an acid bath anyway since she never sets foot in the shed where it would be, but then I saw some posts about how the fumes will do some nasty stuff on metal objects. The container is a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a lid. The shed space is shared with several old metal-cased electronic slot machines that belong to a relative who's storing them there. Needless to say, I don't need both the woman of the house and her brother dancing on my head if something happened. Sooo... I've heard that vinegar or Lime Away will work well, but do you dilute it, or use it full strength? How long do you leave them in the bath? The bottles are heavily encrusted. I have some others that I hand-cleaned with a lot of elbow grease, but I'm looking for some solutions that will make the job a little easier and quicker w/o too much expense. Attachment (1) (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 11

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/8/2004 2:33:49 AM    bigkitty53   Posts: 286 Joined: 3/28/2004 From: Bermuda Status: offline Welcome to the forum Dive4Bottles, Vinegar is diluted to 5% acidity when it's bottled.On the admittedly rare occaisions I've used it,it was full strength and didn't hurt the glass in any way.It just takes longer to dissolve the calcium,etc. deposits. Hope this helps, KAT (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 12

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/13/2004 12:12:57 PM    Bottle Diver   Posts: 52 Joined: 6/29/2004 Status: offline Hey Dive4bottles: Nice milk bottle there. I would agree with bigkitty, whenever I use vinegar, I go full strength. A diluted mixture will get off coral encrustations after a long soak, but those barnacles need full strength, and sometimes require some gentle "tapping" with a knife or other edge even after that. They create one amazing adhesive! Good luck. < Message edited by Bottle Diver -- 10/13/2004 12:13:44 PM > (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 13

RE: Acid, vinegar, after pic - 10/13/2004 5:42:52 PM    Dive4bottles   Posts: 14 Joined: 10/7/2004 From: Seattle Status: offline Went down to the nearby Cash & Carry store (kinda like a mini Costco, but no membership needed) and got a case of vinegar. Works fine if you don't have the time to watch them closely and/or fuss with the rubber gloves, baking soda rinse, goggles, and all that. I let it sit in the vinegar bath for 3 or 4 days. Doesn't appear to harm the glass at all and really softens up the barnacles. They are tough sob's, for sure. It still could use a good "pro" polishing to really shine it up. Note the 3-digit phone # on the bottle. I think vinegar will be my prefered "acid" bath, much easier and safer to work with. Attachment (1) < Message edited by Dive4bottles -- 10/14/2004 6:10:47 PM > _____________________________ "The cure for anything is saltwater--sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 14

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/13/2004 5:50:25 PM    Dive4bottles   Posts: 14 Joined: 10/7/2004 From: Seattle Status: offline One of the other bottles in my collection. It had several really tough barnacles on it that I initially tried getting of with a diluted bleach soak and elbow grease but several still wouldn't budge (but the bleach made them nice and white). This is after a soak in straight vinegar for several days. Attachment (1) < Message edited by Dive4bottles -- 10/13/2004 5:54:39 PM > _____________________________ "The cure for anything is saltwater--sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 15

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/14/2004 9:44:32 AM    Bottle Diver   Posts: 52 Joined: 6/29/2004 Status: offline There is nothing wrong with using vinegar, I tend to use it a lot in the winter, when I can't really find an area with good ventilation for the muriatic. (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 16

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/14/2004 6:08:22 PM    Dive4bottles   Posts: 14 Joined: 10/7/2004 From: Seattle Status: offline Vinegar fits well with my lazy streak (don't have to watch them so close or fuss with the other stuff) and she-who-must-be-obeyed is also content with it. < Message edited by Dive4bottles -- 10/24/2004 5:14:35 PM > _____________________________ "The cure for anything is saltwater--sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen (in reply to Bottle Diver) Post #: 17

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/15/2004 4:28:12 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline I just found an 1850's black beer in a winecooler full of Hydrochloric Acid (40% Acid 60% water, I use it on rust covered bottles) that I'd left behind the cellar door (it's leaning on the wall, not hung in the doorway ), I put it there a month or so ago and put a pile of plain blacks in front of it then forgot about it , there is no etching on it at all so I wouldn't worry too much about leaving them overnight. (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 18

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/24/2004 4:29:15 PM    nanny_n_buppa   Posts: 10 Joined: 9/19/2004 From: Jay, Maine Status: offline Hey folks, Has any one ever heard of putting a tooth in a cup of Coca Cola and have it dissolve over night? I have actually used it to flush out a plugged car radiator and heater core. I bet it would work on alot of different build ups on glass, obviously it won't eat the glass because it used to be bottled in glass. The acid in Coke is phosphoric acid. I have a Sawyer's Crystal Blueing bottle that still has blueing compound dried on the inside of the bottle. I don't dare to clean it for fear of losing the blueing, who knows, maybe it is a lost formula. Have fun!!! _____________________________ --Joe C-- Jay, Maine (in reply to Leisalu) Post #: 19

RE: Muriatic Watch Out - 10/24/2004 5:08:49 PM    Dive4bottles   Posts: 14 Joined: 10/7/2004 From: Seattle Status: offline I use Coca-Cola in my rum drinks. I don't have any need to dissolve teeth overnight, I dump the bodies in the ocean. I would think it would clog up a radiator with all that sticky crap and also leave a sticky residue on bottles. I take my vehicle to pros to work on, I won't touch it. Straight vinegar works fine and is much cheaper. _____________________________ "The cure for anything is saltwater--sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen (in reply to nanny_n_buppa) Post #: 20

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