LockedCOCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY

Page: 12345.. > >> Showing page 1 of 6
Author
SODAPOPBOB
Super Member
  • Total Posts : 7912
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
  • Status: offline
2011/01/20 00:51:28 (permalink)

COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY

                I know I'm jumping the gun on this one, but I'm so excited it couldn't wait!

I stumbled into an antique shop today, and lo and behold they had a late 1800s or very early 1900s wooden Coca Cola case that was used to transport "Hutchinson" Coca Cola bottles. It had a wood lid with metal hinges and metal closing clasp. I have never seen anything like it. It is as original as it gets, and on a scale of 1 to 10 I would give it a 7.5.  Inside the case it has a lower shelf that has 24 small holes used to place the Hutchinson bottle "tops" into. Thus allowing them to be transported upside down as was the norm for Hutch bottles back then. Many of you are familiar with these cases even without seeing photos of them.

And this brings me to part of my quandary. I took photos of the case with my cell phone, but at present I am unable to download the photos until I get the proper cord or whatever else I need to do it. But I am currently working on that.

In the meantime I was hoping some of you may be able to help me establish a value on it. If I get a shot at it I don't want to pay too much. Plus, the dealer just got it in a couple of days ago and has not even priced it yet. They said they wanted to do some research of their own first, just as I am doing here.

         I will get the photos posted as soon as possible. Otherwise all I can tell you about it at present is ...

1.   It is a solid piece made of wood slats.
2.   It has a hinged lid and metal closure.
3.   It has original red paint overall with white lettering that reads ...

                                              Return Bottles When Empty To

                                 The Inland Coca Cola Bottling Company - Boise, Idaho

4.  On the inside it is stamped by the company who made. Which reads ...

                                      McFerson & Foster Co. -  Evansville, Indiana

5.  It has cut-out hand holes on both ends.

If this is something you are familiar with please let we know what you think something like it would be worth?  Even some speculating would be welcome at this point. I will post photos of it just as soon as I possibly can. The dealer said it would take him at least until Monday before he came up with a firm price on it. And here is the clincher ... "He doesn't even know what it is yet!"    

    Thanks to all who take an interest in this and especially to those of you who choose to comment.

                               SODAPOPBOB ... a.k.a.  "Wild Goose Chaser" ???

                                                                   

          
post edited by SODAPOPBOB - 2011/01/20 00:53:53
#1

116 Replies Related Threads

    TJSJHART
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 1750
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/09/10 17:40:37
    • Location: Arizona
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 00:58:19 (permalink)
    BOB, CAN YOU SEND PICTURES IN AN E-MAIL TO YOUR PUTER ? JUST AN IDEA.

    .N.R.A. LIFER
    #2
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 01:20:20 (permalink)
    TJSJHART  ~
     
    I send internet messages to my e-mail all the time. But the photos of the case I have are on my cell phone. At present I don't even have the necessary cord I need to attach my cell to my computer.
     
    Were you referring to the above or something else? I am wide open for suggestions. But whatever I do it will likely have to wait a couple of days.  Plus, cell phones and I don't exactly agree with each other. Too many dang "options"    (But I will figure it out eventually).
     
    I also wanted to mention I have been searching the internet and so far I can't find zilch on the exact box. Lot's of "similars" from the 1930s and 40s, but nothing as old as the turn of the century. I'm not kidding you, my heart dropped to my stomach when I saw it! 
     
    The best part is the dealer told me he couldn't find anything out about it on the internet. He thinks it's something from the 1940s.   Hmmm ... that should work in my favor (I hope). ???
     
    Mucho Grasis'
     
    SPBOB  
     
     
    #3
    celerycola
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 1661
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2004/02/20 07:52:17
    • Location: Alabama
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 08:07:25 (permalink)
    These so-called "Hutchinson" cases with the holes in the bottom were not exclusively for Hutch bottles. When crown bottles came into use bottlers continued to buy and use this type of case because it was easy to make sure they received only their bottles back by glancing over the bottle bottoms where their trade mark was embossed.

    When Coca-Cola published their Standardization Guidelines in 1928 they pictured the new color scheme on a case with the holes.

    I've seen these cases marked Coca-Cola priced from $50 to $200. The lid on this one is a nice feature and so is the non-standard color scheme. Is Coca-Cola in script or block?
    #4
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 12:36:04 (permalink)
    Celery  ~

    Thank you for the helpful information. The idea of transporting straight-sided and/or contour bottles up-side-down is new to me, but I acknowledge your expertise in this regard.

    The script is cursive as shown in my sketch below, and is white atop the overall red of the box itself.

    Another curious aspect is that the metal latch on the lid snaps shut and has a small hole in it where a paddlock might have gone. Plus, because of the latch (that protrudes up about 1/2") it seems unlikely that another box of the same type could be stacked on top of it. The bottom is flat with no cavity or anything else to accommodate the latch if one box were placed on top of another.

    The dealer (who doesn't know yet what the box was used for) speculated that because of the locking latch it might have been a salesmen's box of somekind.

    I sent the images from my cell phone to my brother's cell phone. He is working on it now to try and download the images from his phone to his computer and then send them back to me in an e-mail.

    In the meantime I am trying to research the dates involving the "Inland Coca Cola Bottling Co." of Boise, Idaho. If I can determine when they started their operation it might help establish an appx. date.

    If you have any information on the Boise bottler, I would very much like to know about it. So far I have not been able to find any dates for that particular bottler.

          I will post photos of the box just as soon as my brother and I can figure out how to do it.

    Thanks again,

    SPBOB

    Sketch I did from my 1 1/2" cell phone screen.   

     [image]local://upfiles/12219/C580908968EB4F4B90ED82E2C0314974.jpg[/image]
    post edited by SODAPOPBOB - 2011/01/20 12:37:05
    #5
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 13:26:32 (permalink)
    I still have not found any dates for the Boise, Idaho Coca Cola Bottling Company. But I researched the McFerson & Foster Co. and discovered they were a box factory in Evansville, Indiana and that they were established in 1883 and closed in 1962.
     
    I also discovered there was an Owens-Illinois glass plant in Evansville ... but no dates on that yet. The image below is an old sketch of the glass plant.
     
    SPBOB
    #6
    splante
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 2026
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/05/25 12:28:38
    • Location: RI
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 13:34:02 (permalink)
    nice crate...a lot of cases usally have a date stamped inside somewhere, If you get it for a decent price i would go for it. The 50 to 200 range celery suggest seems pretty good for early coke items
    #7
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 14:05:35 (permalink)
    Splante  ~  Thanks

         I haven't mentioned this yet, but I know the dealer is going to want "at least" $100.00 for it.

    Something that continues to puzzle me about the upside-down part is it "appears" that straight-sided and/or contour bottles would flop around somewhat and bang into each other. Whereas Hutchinson bottles might fit a little more snuggly. This is pure speculation of course, but still a valid point in my un-educated opinion. 

    I'm hoping to go back over there later today (if the dealer will allow me) and experiment by trying various bottles (I have all three. A non-Coca Cola Hutch - and both a straight-sided and contour Coca Cola) and see how well they fit into the holes and how much clearance remains above them when the lid is closed. But I admit I'm not sure this will actually tell me anything specific as I suspect the "clearance" aspect will work for all three bottles. But the "flopping around" aspect may be another story. I think it really depends on the true diameter of the 24 holes, etc. 

    If and when I do get back over there, I will be sure to look for any dates. Plus I will take my camera along for some descent photos. I'm just waiting to hear from my brother about the cell phone images before deciding what to do.

    SPBOB

    P.S.  I just this minute decided to call the dealer and see what they might have come up with so far. I will report back shortly if I am able to get ahold of them.





       
    post edited by SODAPOPBOB - 2011/01/20 14:08:04
    #8
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 14:35:34 (permalink)
    I just called the dealer and they said it would be okay for me to try my little experiment. So unless my brother gets the photos to me real soon, this will be the last you hear from me until I get back from the antique shop.
     
    However, the dealer reminded me that he has another individual (and possibly more than one) who are also interested in purchasing the box. So things could get a little tricky - meaning it might end up being a "Best Offer" situation.
     
    I hope my research and attempts to purchase it are not in vain. Please keep your fingers crossed for me.  If nothing else - at least this is a good (true) treasure hunting story.     I just wish I knew for certain how old the box is and what it's worth?  That's the $64.00 question! 
     
    SPBOB   
    #9
    RED Matthews
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 4328
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2008/08/02 17:29:02
    • Location: Sarasota FL & Burdett NY
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 15:39:46 (permalink)
    Hi Bob;  I was impressed by your illustration of he Evansville O-I plant.  That picture has to be before 1900 because there is no Robinson Ventilators on the building.  Thanks - because I keep collecting old glass factory pictures. Red Matthews


    #10
    celerycola
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 1661
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2004/02/20 07:52:17
    • Location: Alabama
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 17:47:10 (permalink)
    From page 67 of

    Coca-Cola Bottlers' Standards

    published in 1929.

    According to Munsey the Inland Coca-Cola Bottling Company started in 1915.
    (Boise's Nye Pharmacy was advertising Coca-Cola at their fountain as early as 1898 but it shared billing with 'Kola Celery'.)


    #11
    morbious_fod
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 4463
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/03/04 15:05:53
    • Location: The backwoods of the backwoods, Virginia
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:00:23 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: celerycola

    These so-called "Hutchinson" cases with the holes in the bottom were not exclusively for Hutch bottles. When crown bottles came into use bottlers continued to buy and use this type of case because it was easy to make sure they received only their bottles back by glancing over the bottle bottoms where their trade mark was embossed.

    When Coca-Cola published their Standardization Guidelines in 1928 they pictured the new color scheme on a case with the holes.

    I've seen these cases marked Coca-Cola priced from $50 to $200. The lid on this one is a nice feature and so is the non-standard color scheme. Is Coca-Cola in script or block?



    I agree. I have also ran into these style boxes from certain local bottlers that I know were only around during the crown top era.

    Researching the soda bottling companies of the Southwest Virginia, Northeast Tennessee, and Mercer County WV area www.tazewell-orange.com
    #12
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:31:01 (permalink)

    I just got back from taking some photos of the box with my digital camera. My brother was able to do the cell phone download, but the photos turned out blurry. But the ones to follow should make up for it.
     
    In case anyone intends to comment soon, please give me about 15 minutes to post about six photos. They will tell the story about the box better than I can.
     
    Notice in the photo of the side where it has the number 404. I know this is a Root Glass number, but I am not sure yet if there is a connection between the box and the Root Glass Factory. I am trying not to speculate too much here. But even if the 404 number is pure coincidence (which I believe it is) the experiment I did (and explain below) should help shed at least a little light on what type of bottles the box was intended for.
     
    Regarding the experiment I did (see related photo) I placed three bottles in the box … which included a Hutchinson - a 1910 Straight-side - and a 1915 hobbleskirt. (Shown left to right). The result of which was the Hutch and 1910 bottles rested well below the top edge of the box. But the 1915 hobbleskirt was slightly too tall (by about 1/8 inch) and the lid came to rest on it when closed. I’m not sure this is conclusive of anything, but it suggest that it was not intended for hobbleskirts, leaving the straight-sided bottles as the most likely candidates for the box's intent. (Question mark).
     
    I have more research results to share, but for the time being please look over the photos and see what you think. I titled each photo the best I could. Plus, I have lowered the condition from 7.5 to 6.0.
     
    Again, please allow me a little time to post my photos. I will indicate my last photo when I'm done.
     
    Thanks a lot.
     
    SPBOB
     
    Back side showing hinges - the back is in better shap than the front.
     
     
    #13
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:33:40 (permalink)
    Looking down inside of the box with my three bottles in place.
    #14
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:36:20 (permalink)
    Side of box with 404 ... and ... A
    #15
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:38:58 (permalink)
    Closeup of latch on front of lid. Another box would not stack on it too good (if at all).
    #16
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 19:43:47 (permalink)
    (Last photo) Box mfg. maker's mark stamped on the back wall of the inside. This company was in operation from 1883 to 1964.

    Soooo ... What do you think?  How old is it and what is it worth?

    Mucho Gracias' to everyone

    SPBOB
    post edited by SODAPOPBOB - 2011/01/20 19:45:41

    Attached Image(s)

    #17
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 20:07:57 (permalink)
    I just found out that (according to Coca Cola researcher, Cecil Munsey) the "Inland Coca Cola Bottling Company of Boise, Idaho" began operation in ...
     
                                                                   ~  1915  ~
    #18
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 20:21:29 (permalink)
        All things considered, if I have a shot at purchasing it on Monday, I believe it will end up at ...
     
     
                                                            $150.00 minimum
                                                            $200.00 maximum
     
                                   Let's take a vote based on everything we know so far.
     
           YES :  Buy it in this price range?                        NO :  It's too much in this price range?
     
                                  (And could it possibly sell on e-bay for $250.00-plus?)
     
                                                                    SPBOB
    #19
    SODAPOPBOB
    Super Member
    • Total Posts : 7912
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2010/03/10 12:51:49
    • Status: offline
    RE: COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY 2011/01/20 21:45:40 (permalink)
                                                          ~ IN CONCLUSION ~
     
    First ... I want to acknowledge celerycola for coming up with the 1915 I.C.C.B.C. date first.
     
    Second ... All of the e-mail inquiries I sent out have been answered now, and according to extremely reliable sources the 404 on the box has no connection whatsoever to the straight-sided Root bottles that have 404 embossed on the heels. But that the box was likely intended for straight sided bottes of some kind from somewhere.
     
    Third ... The box was likely intended for use as a transport case for filled bottles to be delivered to area grocers and markets from the bottler. And to be returned to the bottler when it was refilled with empty bottles.
     
    Fourth ... A reasonable date for when the box was made can safely be set at  ... Circa 1915-1920. 
     
                     Which leaves the following categories in question regarding it's collectibility ... 
     
                                             ?   Supply - Demand - Rarity - Value   ? 
    #20
    Page: 12345.. > >> Showing page 1 of 6
    Jump to:

    © 2014 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.5