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All Forums >> [Bottle Forums] >> Digging and Finding >> teeny tiny cellar holes

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teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/7/2004 9:57:54 PM    batfish   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/11/2004 From: Litchfield, NH Status: offline So, I keep finding these teeny tiny cellar holes. I’ve found three of them way out on the hiking trails (since I started looking for bottles, I spend more time looking for straight lines in the forest than I do at the trail, if you know what I mean!). What are these? They seem way too small to be house foundations, unless the house was a one-room shack (which I suppose is possible). They are all mounded up inside with rock, bricks, and other dreck. They tend to be about 10 feet square, one with a smaller alcove (closet size), and about five feet deep. All are made of un-mortared stone. All have some red brick in the debris, indicating that they had chimneys. The places where I am finding them is mostly abandoned farmland, long since reclaimed by forest, in southern NH (Auburn, Chester and Londonderry, for you locals!). They are accessed via little known, little used footpaths. Since, I suppose, these old cellars were dug by hand, I’d guess those that dug them had an interest in making them as small as possible. Could it be that the cellar hole represents but a small portion of the house that once stood over it? Maybe the cellar was under only one part of the house – the rest on a slab or less? Or are these likely something else? What other sort of structure would have a dug foundation? Hmmmmmm…. I’d give you pictures, but my digicam is currently broke. _____________________________ Batfish Post #: 1

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/8/2004 4:44:33 AM    IRISH   Posts: 1238 Joined: 11/23/2002 From: cockatoo Australia Status: offline The cellars where not always under the house, sometimes they where behind or next to it, I presume they had a low roof over them. Most cellars that are under old houses where only part of the size of the house, most people probably didn't have much use for a cellar much bigger that what you discribed. Unless they are foundations for some sort of local industry I can't think of anything else they could be . (in reply to batfish) Post #: 2

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/8/2004 9:47:35 AM    Tandy   Posts: 280 Joined: 6/19/2004 From: Netherby, South Australia Status: offline Hi Batfish, Is it possible that the chimneys are part of the answer? Is it possible that the "cellars" were used to produce some sort of oil from the trees, or maybe charcoal? Just a thought. _____________________________ Today is the day I will find those goodies just waiting to be found ..... Lots of luck digging! Tandy, Netherby, Adelaide. South Australia. June National http://www.angelfire.com/rock3/rickirving/AHBC.html (in reply to batfish) Post #: 3

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/14/2004 9:41:05 PM    Oldtimer Posts: 744 Joined: 5/13/2004 From: Effingham NH. Where else? Status: offline Saphouses. Maple syrup! Mmmmmm.... < Message edited by Oldtimer -- 9/14/2004 9:42:37 PM > _____________________________ STOP THE CAR !! I think I see a cellarhole !!! (in reply to batfish) Post #: 4

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/14/2004 10:33:04 PM    diginit   Posts: 662 Joined: 4/7/2004 From: California Status: offline Chimneys huh? Could be a smokehouse. Early settlers didn't build large estates. I've found alot of remnants of these on my hikes. one or two room cottages side by side. But then, this is california. Notice the shack to the right. a little smoker.Found a keg of square nails about 50 yards further to the right I got to go dig around this one someday soon. Attachment (1) < Message edited by diginit -- 9/14/2004 10:42:22 PM > _____________________________ Life is a Ditch. (in reply to batfish) Post #: 5

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/14/2004 10:47:17 PM    Matt in NH   Posts: 116 Joined: 7/5/2004 Status: offline A lot of the really small foundations were made for soldiers posts during the french and indain War, the Rev. war, and even the war of 1812......We have a couple around here.....and thats what they are..... Matty (in reply to batfish) Post #: 6

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/15/2004 1:20:22 AM    diginit   Posts: 662 Joined: 4/7/2004 From: California Status: offline Hey Batfish, Break out the metal detector. _____________________________ Life is a Ditch. (in reply to batfish) Post #: 7

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/15/2004 8:08:57 AM    kastoo   Posts: 1282 Joined: 9/7/2004 From: Lagrange, GA Status: online That reminds me of Crocodile Dundees house! (in reply to diginit) Post #: 8

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/16/2004 4:29:47 PM    batfish   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/11/2004 From: Litchfield, NH Status: offline quote: Hey Batfish, Break out the metal detector. If I only HAD a metal detector! Seriously, I think I need one for these sites. I dug around in the foundation for a bit and found nothing encouraging - just more bricks and rocks. If there is anything at these sites it is buried. Here is a picture of one of the foundations. Probably useless for identification. These things are clearly real old. Their former shape (a square I presume) is now barely recognizable. Attachment (1) < Message edited by batfish -- 9/16/2004 4:31:01 PM > _____________________________ Batfish (in reply to diginit) Post #: 9

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/16/2004 5:52:30 PM    woody   Posts: 1676 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: online What I try to look for is the dump that the old house used. Most of the time digging a foundation doesn't produce much more than broken or burned glass. There are some exceptions, though, where someone used the foundation as a dump. Then you might have a chance being productive. _____________________________ Woody (in reply to batfish) Post #: 10

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/16/2004 6:18:11 PM    batfish   Posts: 64 Joined: 4/11/2004 From: Litchfield, NH Status: offline quote: What I try to look for is the dump that the old house used. So, what you're saying, is a really need a detector I poked around for about an hour all around this foundation, even scraped the leaf litter off of a few depressions, and found not even a shard or speck of rust. I figure with a metal detector I could at least improve my odds... What would you recommend? White's XLT? New or used? _____________________________ Batfish (in reply to woody) Post #: 11

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/16/2004 6:52:23 PM    woody   Posts: 1676 Joined: 10/29/2002 From: Gilmanton, New Hampshire Status: online You don't have to get anything as expensive as a Whites XLT, even though I paid over $700.00 for mine brand new. A used one will work well or even a less expensive model. Realize that you're only prospecting for metal when looking for the old dump. You don't need all the extra bells and whistles, unless you want to get into other aspects of metal detecting, such as coins or gold. I never go out without my metal detector because it doesn't miss a trick. You find the cans and you'll find the glass right along with it most of the times. Sometimes the dump is obvious and other times you'll never know it's there, unless you have a metal detector to find it. It's a good investment, Batfish, especially here in New Hampshire!!! _____________________________ Woody (in reply to batfish) Post #: 12

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 9/16/2004 8:34:03 PM    brianwi   Posts: 24 Joined: 9/3/2004 Status: offline If your thinking of buying a detector for things like this, a White's might be too much. It can be hard to understand at times and doesnt work very well in iron. You'd probly be better off with something simple and cheap like a bounty hunter, or just something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20097&item=5720512776&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Or if you could find the Discovery 3000, that is what i started out with and had a lot of success. But dont get sucked into buying the "New" Radioshack versions, the older ones are better. < Message edited by brianwi -- 9/16/2004 8:36:36 PM > (in reply to batfish) Post #: 13

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/2/2005 9:44:35 AM    swizzle   Posts: 1325 Joined: 3/2/2005 From: Upstate NY Status: offline Another possibility for the small cellars. It was sometimes difficult for people to find workers for their mills, so they built several small shelters that provided the basic needs for people staying there. If a person had to travel more then 5 miles to work he might not want to work there unless he has a place to stay much closer to his work site and then on the weekends or when the weather was better he could go back to his family. Jason (in reply to batfish) Post #: 14

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/2/2005 10:47:07 AM    Maine Digger   Posts: 823 Joined: 2/4/2004 From: Augusta, Maine Status: offline Have you attempted a search of the area in question via sanborns maps, local historical society,etc. If you could determine how the area was used back when the 'foundations' were built, you might determine their use. Was the area farmed in the past, are the trees new or old growth, is there any charcoal in the soil, ....... I agree with the others, get ye a metal detector, if there was structures on those holes, there should be some remnents of nails.. _____________________________ Norm Miller (in reply to batfish) Post #: 15

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/2/2005 12:10:55 PM    swizzle   Posts: 1325 Joined: 3/2/2005 From: Upstate NY Status: offline The 10 foot cellars I'm talking about are part of a settlement close to an old tannery. It's also a part of an old orchard and a paint mine. Jason (in reply to batfish) Post #: 16

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/3/2005 9:02:15 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline I dig them all the time here in Maine. If they are pre 1830 you won't get much except pottery fragments, window pane glass, and a ton of brick. I found one about 8" square that was full of 1860 pontiled bottles. We got about 30 whole ones. Also a broken citron colored Capt. Bragg Cannon/Grape 1/2 pint flask, $6000 if whole. With the old town maps we determined it was a blacksmith shop, man did they like to drink expensive bitters!! It's hit or miss though, I'd say one out of ten holes produce good results. A metal detector will help but it will beep all day long. It will take you a while to learn the difference between a nail and a 3' deep buried dump. Many times I get a solid hit, dig 2 feet through nothing only to find an untouched use layer at the 3 foot level. The cheaper ($200-$300) metal detectors are better for locating deep buried dumps. I have a Bounty Hunter and it works great. Get a partner to use one also and then you can cover some ground. We've gone back to sites that have been "dug out" and have located virgin hidden dumps in the general vicinity and they are usually much older. < Message edited by Mainepontil -- 3/3/2005 9:47:47 PM > _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to batfish) Post #: 17

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/4/2005 8:17:22 PM    Sam_MaineBottles Posts: 370 Joined: 4/5/2004 From: Mid-coast Maine Status: offline Hey Joel -Nice bottles there! What's the wording on the stoneware? Speaking of cellar hole size, I used to live in a typical old 1860s Maine farmhouse back when I was a kid. The house, ell and attached barn were probably 80-90 feet long altogether but the cellar was a hand dug hole under the main part of the house that problaby measured only 15 X15 feet. I'm thinking that some cellar holes were made only big enough to store foodstuffs during the winter. Perhaps these tiny cellar holes being discussed didn't actually represent the actual size of the building built above them - just a thought. -Sam (in reply to batfish) Post #: 18

RE: teeny tiny cellar holes - 3/4/2005 10:54:04 PM    Mainepontil Posts: 215 Joined: 1/11/2005 Status: offline You are exactly right Sam. Just enough space to store your perishables. Many times the ells were added at a later time. Quite often at a cellar hole you will find glass and bottles right behind the foundation where the ell or barn once stood. It was a great place to throw your bottles back in the day, right under the floor. The stoneware is a "B.F. HALEY CALIFORNIA POP BEER". It's from Biddeford I believe. Joel < Message edited by Mainepontil -- 3/4/2005 10:56:31 PM > _____________________________ Dig it NOW....before a housing development is built. (in reply to batfish) Post #: 19

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