Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day

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iggyworf

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Leon, very cool! Strangely I have never heard of this one. Have to keep my eyes open for this one.
 

M.C.Glass

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You posted the ad from 1868 showing J. Vernor and L'Hommidieu offering for sale, a 10 day old soda fountain. James Vernor was said to be a perfectionist. Maybe he thought the new fountain was sub standard or that he could have a better one built, after seeing the newest. No matter. 1868 is well before 1880.
To clarify, the 219 and 235 Woodward addresses are the same building. The change occurred in 1869-70.

April 7, 1868 Soda Fountain.jpg

In Search of ...

Proof-positive verification that James Vernor had a Soda Fountain at 235 Woodward Avenue, Detroit, Michigan.

Please note it is not my intention to create controversy or upset any apple carts, but I feel it would be an injustice to any discussion about the history of Vernor's Ginger Ale not to question certain aspects of those histories that in some cases don't appear to be based on facts. Which, to my surprise, is exactly what I discovered when attempting to find verification about James Vernor having a soda fountain at his first location on the southwest corner of Woodward and Clifford. Even though about 99.9% of the accounts about Vernor's mention a soda fountain, some of which that even say his first glass of ginger ale was served over the counter of that soda fountain, I just can't for the life of me find an account from that actual time period between 1866 and 1880 that supports those claims. My investigation into this involved no less than ten hours of searching through ...

1. U.S. Census records
2. Detroit Business Directories
3. Newspaper Archives
4. Periodical Publications
5. Etc.

... and in none of sources could I find proof-positive verification that James Vernor had a soda fountain at 235 Woodward Avenue. So if anyone should ever find a verifiable reference for the supposed soda fountain in an account that was published anytime between 1866 and 1880, please share it with us and I will do the same.

Note: I do not consider accounts from the early 1900s, such as a popular one from 1919, as verifiable. Some of those accounts were written 50+ years after the fact and do not necessarily support something that was supposed to have occurred between 1866 and 1880.

Lastly: I would like to emphasize I'm not saying that James Vernor did not have a soda fountain at 235 Woodward, I'm just saying that I cannot find bona fide proof of it!

Respectfully,

Sodapopbob
 

M.C.Glass

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OK, so it turns out James Vernor DID have a soda fountain in his store before 1880 - in 1868.

April 7, 1868 Soda Fountain.jpg

Mr. Vernor was a prominent man, his reputation as a perfectionist definitely manifested itself in his pharmacy and his business dealings and the respect and honesty with which he comported himself. By all accounts, he was an old-school, old-world, stand-up guy.
No one, can compare him to the low standards of personal and professional integrity displayed regularly today.
If he says he sold ginger ale more or less continuously since 1866, you have to come up with proof that he did not. And you can't overlook evidence that contradicts your objective. It's irresponsible, to just scan your computer and refute publicly, and in the record, of the word of an honest man. Doubt if you will, but join me, in wishing
Vernor's Ginger Ale

a
HAPPY 150th BIRTHDAY!! :fireworks: :boom:

PM me for where to send the ACL book.
 

SODAPOPBOB

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OK, so it turns out James Vernor DID have a soda fountain in his store before 1880 - in 1868.

View attachment 173617

Mr. Vernor was a prominent man, his reputation as a perfectionist definitely manifested itself in his pharmacy and his business dealings and the respect and honesty with which he comported himself. By all accounts, he was an old-school, old-world, stand-up guy.
No one, can compare him to the low standards of personal and professional integrity displayed regularly today.
If he says he sold ginger ale more or less continuously since 1866, you have to come up with proof that he did not. And you can't overlook evidence that contradicts your objective. It's irresponsible, to just scan your computer and refute publicly, and in the record, of the word of an honest man. Doubt if you will, but join me, in wishing
Vernor's Ginger Ale

a
HAPPY 150th BIRTHDAY!! :fireworks: :boom:

PM me for where to send the ACL book.




MCglass

With all do respect ...

1. That 1868 newspaper advertisement does not confirm there was a full service soda fountain in James Vernor's drug store. It only confirms he had what was probably a portable fount for sale.

2. I found that 1868 advertisement and originally posted it.

3. The ACL book goes to the individual who finds and provides us with ...

A. Verifiable confirmation of the existence of "Vernor's Ginger Ale" from a source that was published earlier than 1880.

B. Verifiable confirmation there was a full service soda fountain at James Vernor's drug store that had a counter-top and stools from a source that was published in 1880 or earlier.

Respectfully,

Bob
 

SODAPOPBOB

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The same applies to this 1867 newspaper article where it says ...

"Messrs. Vernor and L'Hommedieu, for the free use of a soda fount."

It only confirms they loaned what was probably a portable soda fount. It does not confirm there was a full service soda fountain in James Vernor's and Charles L'Hommedieu's drug store. Nor does this article confirm the existence of "Vernor's Ginger Ale" earlier than 1880.

The Detroit Free Press ~ July 7, 1867

Vernor and L'Hommedieu Soda Fount loan DFP July 7, 1867 (3).jpg
 

SODAPOPBOB

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Most of the histories written about James Vernor and his ginger ale state he had a soda fountain in his first drug store on the corner of Woodward Avenue and Clifford Street. I'm merely challenging those numerous histories in that I cannot find a single reference between 1866 and 1880 that confirms the existence of a full service soda fountain in James Vernor's drug store located on the corner of Woodward Avenue and Clifford Street. Here's the link to one of the more recent histories where it says ...

"Regardless of exactly how and when he arrived at his formula, Vernor started selling his ginger ale at his pharmacy’s soda fountain by 1866."

Note: The article is from a magazine called "Hour Detroit" that was published on May 31, 2016 and written by Leyland DeVito.

http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detroit/June-2016/A-Ginger-Tale/
 

hemihampton

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May be he served his Vernors at the first store in a portable non full service soda fountain. LEON.
 

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