Help with dating this bottle

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Brian Tovin

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I recently got into bottle collecting by diving in some of the rivers down south (where I have dove for years for fossils), where steamship landings were. I found this bottle which is clearly free/hand blown. However, I am a novice and want to see if anyone can date it. From the research I have done, it looks like it could be 1700s. bottle.jpgIMG_2670.jpgIMG_2700.jpg
 

Harry Pristis

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I think your French Bordeaux wine bottle dates to the mid-1800s. The cleaner the lip string, the later the bottle.

That is a prodigious kick-up on your bottle. Just for fun, how many ounces of water does the bottle hold? If it's less than the standard 26 ounces, it may have been a "cheat" bottle which contained less wine than apparent.

edit: I'm not certain now that the bottle is not a half-bottle. If so, divide the nominal 26 oz. by two.

winekickups.jpgwinesealedtrio.jpgwine_bordeaux_lip.jpg


 
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Brian Tovin

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Thanks for the response. Here is another that I found on the same trip and this is more true "black glass" with and applied top, but I think its not as old as the first one... because the area where the punty rod was put in the pontil mark (not sure if I am using the right terminology) is not as deep.IMG_2702.jpgIMG_2703.jpgIMG_2704.jpg
 

Brian Tovin

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This final bottle I found is probably the least oldest (I am guessing late 1800s) because it is not as dark, the pontil is not as deep, and it is a different shape. By the way, all are free blown as none have mold seams. Thoughts?IMG_2705.jpgIMG_2706.jpgIMG_2707-1.jpg
 

nhpharm

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The first one you posted is the oldest by a long shot with the crude string lip and sheared top-likely 1850's-1870's. The other two look to date around the same time and are classic 1890's-1920's era wines. The coloration won't tell you much about the age, but the way the lip is constructed on these will.
 

Harry Pristis

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This final bottle I found is probably the least oldest (I am guessing late 1800s) because it is not as dark, the pontil is not as deep, and it is a different shape. By the way, all are free blown as none have mold seams. Thoughts?

As NHPHM points out, color is a poor indicator of age.
Most of these later wine bottles do not have a pontil scar, were never empontilled. The kick-up was produced by a tool called a "mollette." Furthermore, these bottles were mold-blown, then turned in the mold to obliterate the mold seams . . . look for horizontal striations in the glass.
Ivor Noel Hume's books are great (I have three); however, he is describing colonial artifacts which are much earlier than your wine bottles. Better is Van den Bossche's book, though it is expensive (I have a brand- new copy available -- PM me after you check the prices on Amazon).
French wine bottles can be difficult because the state of the art was sophisticated and the bottle forms are traditional.

4wineshapesB.jpg
 

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