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Harry Pristis
10-18-2003, 08:47 PM
What do you suppose these stout little barrel figural bottles were used for?

Both have a smooth base, an applied and tooled lip, and were blown in a two-piece mold (or "mould" in the case of the bottle on the right).

I got the one on the right from a British digger who told me he dug it at Lucy's tip at Oxford.

Both are very dark glass. The Oxford bottle is a blackish emerald-green, and the other is that smokey olive-amber color you see in Belgian black glass (from a reducing coal furnace, I believe).

I have no information on the barrel bottle on the left; however, the base is embossed with "A" / "9" on opposing sides of the base near the edge.

I have always assumed that these two barrels were mustard jars, and I have inset a pic of the two with a typical French mustard barrel. Recently, I saw a suggestion that these are snuff bottles -- I cannot find that reference now.

Anyone have any ideas about these interesting little bottles?

----------------Harry Pristis

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/524/Fd90852.jpg

IRISH
10-19-2003, 02:24 AM
Meat paste ? I've seen stone jars that held meat paste that look a bit like those two.

oz-riley
10-19-2003, 11:48 PM
I have always beleived that these jars held Meat Paste however I have not seen one with a lable.
They could also have been a generic jar and held a number of things.

Harry Pristis
12-14-2003, 01:25 AM
Thanks for the opinions, mates.

I have been searching for the half-remembered reference to these bottles as holding snuff, but cannot find it.

I did find the bottle on the left listed in Betty Zumwalt's book, KETCHUP-PICKLES-SAUCES, 19TH Century Food in Glass. On page 448 she figures this bottle (and a similar form), and describes them as "mustard barrels."

It would be great if someone had one with a label.

-------------Harry Pristis

Harry Pristis
02-15-2004, 05:25 PM
In paging through Betty Zumwalt's book this week, looking for an answer to someone else's question, I found the "half-remembered reference" to a snuff bottle.

Zumwalt figures a black-glass figural barrel similar to mine, but with faint embossing. She reads the embossing as:

A. COBBETT & SON

18

PALL MALL

It's chancy to second-guess Zumwalt who apparently had the bottle in hand, but there are 26 CORBETTs listed in my local phone directory and zero COBBETTs.

Does this reference mean anything to anyone on the forum?

--------Harry Pristis



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/524/Bz78208.jpg

David E Dearden
02-15-2004, 06:36 PM
Harry found a little something here that may help in search,
Shaker/ Cough Syrup/No/1 Canterbury . N.H.
Bottle contained Corbetts Shaker compound
Concentrated syrup or Sarsaparilla. The product
was formulated by Doctor Thomas Corbett in the
1820's and given to the Shaker Society.
In 1880 the brand had been on the market over
50 yrs (Singer 1982) Adver 1910
Aqua oval embossed panel
Not yours but may help to run it down
I checked three other Shaker Products
None match yours

woody
02-15-2004, 08:10 PM
Maybe this link will shed some light on the subject.

http://www.thevictualler.com/morel/

It seems this company has been around for awhile.

http://www.thevictualler.com/morel/about.html

http://www.londonancestor.com/comm/westminster.htm

ITALIAN WAREHOUSEMEN - *+Cobbett & Son, 18, Pall Mall. *Crosse & Blackwell, 20 Soho-sq. - +Hedges & Butler, 155, Regent-st. - * Howis & Mason, 216, Piccadilly.

Harry Pristis
02-15-2004, 10:44 PM
Thank you, David and Woody . . .

Boy! Was I wrong about the spelling of COBBETT! The Cobbetts trace their ancestry back to 1332 in England!

I have written to the Cobbett Study Group (!) asking for more info on the Cobbett & Son family business.

-------Harry Pristis

Harry Pristis
02-17-2004, 06:32 PM
I have this from Pete Cobbett of the Cobbett Study Group (with some editing):

Re> Arthur Cobbett
occupation: APPRENTICED TO CHARLES BARRON AS AN ITALIAN WAREHOUSE AND TEA AND WINE MERCHANT, ON BARRON'S DEATH THE BUSINESS WAS PASSED ON TO ARTHUR COBBETT WHO OPERATED AT 18 TO 19 PALL MALL LONDON.
COBBETT & SON. PURVEYOR OF OIL TO HER MAJESTY AND HRH PRINCE OF WALES.

ITALIAN AND FOREIGN WAREHOUSE MAN. FINALLY SOLD TO MOREL BROTHER FOR £70,000 LONDON

This all happened between 1861 to 1881. By 1891 even his son was listed as a retired Wine merchant.
___________

This is not hard evidence for the use of these little barrel figurals, though it seems to me less likely now that they were used for snuff. Cobbett & Son (and later Morel Brothers/Cobbett&Son) operated as fine food importers.

That is not conclusive that they did not also import snuff, but it seems more likely that these bottles contained some delicacy, such as imported mustard.

I pass this on as a matter of curiosity.

----Harry Pristis

woody
02-17-2004, 09:00 PM
I was kind of leaning toward marmalade, Harry.
Because of the wide mouth.

David E Dearden
02-22-2004, 07:55 AM
Harry a little more info Ihave been doing genelogy for about two years now on my name (Dearden) in England and there are at least five or more spellings. One reason being in my Grandfather case, my Greats were at work probally and they were boarders. So I guess when the census taker came around she give him wrong spelling and it was good that we caught it. Bad writing was another.

Harry Pristis
02-22-2004, 11:43 AM
You are right, David. The Cobbett web-site acknowledges that their extensive family tree includes a number of Corbetts as a result of mis-spellings by various functionaries over the centuries.

-----------Harry Pristis

Harry Pristis
12-14-2015, 01:20 PM
In the nearly 12 years after this thread was posted, I still haven't learned for certain what these little British jars contained. I have acquired a few more of them, and still look for variants. The "A 6" variant (on the left) seems to be the most common.

Here are the best of them:

167729

I have come to believe that these jars did contain meat paste, perhaps something like salted anchovy paste, which might be used in small amounts for flavoring.

Anyone else here know about these jars?

cowseatmaize
12-14-2015, 01:36 PM
That's the problem with generics. You can't know until a label comes up and if you find more than one labelled, they may show different contents. You could try a shout closer to home like The British Antique Bottle Forum (http://www.britishbottleforum.co.uk/) . There may be collectors over the pond that have labelled examples found in basements and such. I know a few are here off and on and even that site lost some to FB but it's worth a try.

Harry Pristis
12-14-2015, 02:01 PM
Thank you, Eric . . . I'll give it a try.

cowseatmaize
12-14-2015, 03:30 PM
It can't hurt, I've been a member there for years and one other now defunct British site. Also, some Aussie sites that have a lot of cross posters and still yet, some have migrated to FB.
There are a lot of FB sites now. I stopped joining after a dozen or so and left a bunch because I really don't care to be notified every time someone goes on vacation, has a kid, the cat is laying down, the dog puked and blah, blah. which is what happens every time you join a group or add a "friend". The filtering stinks. I've never been a fan of bragging here but it's times a 1000 there. "Look what I found"!!! No talk or description, just "yeah me"
I like questions like this one. Thank you for reviving it.
:):)

andy volkerts
12-14-2015, 03:57 PM
Meat paste or like Valentines meat juice there is a glass jar with two flat sides, very common in England, and I am blanking on the brand name but I will bet it is the same stuff....Andy

andy volkerts
12-14-2015, 03:58 PM
I would bet that Alan Austin of AA Auctions in England would know......Andy

cowseatmaize
12-14-2015, 04:16 PM
That's an idea and Mark is his stated appraiser, another knowledgeable over seas collector. Jerry might know too, he is anther member here but he likes the early stuff too.

Andy, are you thinking of Bovril?

Harry Pristis
12-14-2015, 04:18 PM
Meat paste or like Valentines meat juice there is a glass jar with two flat sides, very common in England, and I am blanking on the brand name but I will bet it is the same stuff....Andy

Perhaps you're referring to BOVRIL, which was a British beef juice product. Bovril must have been extremely popular at the TOC, judging by the number of bottles that appear on British eBay.

I think the contents of these little (3.75") figural barrels was solid, not liquid, because of the wide mouth. Bovril bottles have constricted necks.

I've made a note of your suggestion of Alan Austin of AA Auctions. Thank you, Andy.

2find4me Jr.
12-14-2015, 04:50 PM
Couldn't tell you what they held, but it does look like you have a nice little collection going. I like the crudeness and colors. Where do you live at in Florida? I am also from the northern part.

andy volkerts
12-15-2015, 12:29 AM
Yes guys I was thinking of Bovril, and it wouldn't need that wide mouth, so it probably was meat paste kinda like Marmite, ugh bad stuff!!:boom:

andy volkerts
12-15-2015, 12:30 AM
Maybe not the place but I cant help it these emoj:deadhorse:is are great