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View Full Version : What IS a Reproduction?



diggermeister
06-04-2005, 11:45 PM
Hey All, I was wondering how to classify what IS a repro.? [8|]
For example; I have a E.G Booz cabin whiskey from the Post~Prohibition era (1932 to 1964). It was made to hold liquor and was sold as a bottle not as a 'collectable'. Were the ones from later, such as some that are pictured above, ever actually sold containing liquor? Or, were they for collecting only?
What does constitute a "Reproduction"? [sm=rolleyes.gif]

whiskeyman
06-05-2005, 03:14 AM
GARY... a repo is a bottle made so like the original that it can fool collectors into buying it as an original....(I guess that's the simple way to put it). This is why Clevenger Bros began putting the initials CB on their wares, whereas previously they had relied upon a small paper label.

The Booz you note was made in 1954-1966 in 7 varieties by Armstrong Cork Company...Fed Law Forbids was added in addition to it being machine made and having numbers,etc upon the bottom. Those I have seen with labels indicate it was used as a container for Old Mr Boston or E.G.Booz's Ky Straight Bourbon whiskey. The latter being out of Bardstowm KY...The former out of Boston, Mass.

Haunton states."The 7 varieties made by the Armstrong Cork Co between 1954 and 1966 were probably manufactured in the greatest quantity. Mass produced by machuine, they are probably the only Booz bottles other than the original Whitney Booz bottles made to hold whiskey."

This Booz would be considered as an adaptation and not as a repo...it would be difficult for someone to pass this one off as an original...original meaning a "Whitney Booz."( my opinion).

bearswede
06-05-2005, 07:28 AM
I think a reproduction is a reproduction... It may be very close to the original, or it may be obvious that it's a reproduction...

I guess the important thing is to avoid using the reproduction as a forgery, making it as difficult as possible to tell the difference and then passing it off as the genuine article...


Ron

WhiteLighting
06-05-2005, 11:01 AM
what "Whiskyman and most others would say" is to fool most collectors in which they will!,especialy the old EZ-booze,another repro is the wheatons which are easy to identifly by just lookin at the base for Wheaton.......
also the seam lines sometimes are adead givaway,and also the lip/tops are a dead give away,also alot of repro's are named "O.K. Bitters",which the label itself is abit to new to even consider being the real thing not to mention the bottle itself that has the seam lines goin over the lip "a very poor attempt to rip someone off",............


if not sure on what your buyin and looks to good to be real/true then dont buy!,plus you can always ask the members on this forum for thier input......

but thought id throw my 2 cents in......

WhiteLighting
06-05-2005, 11:02 AM
i think the repro has the corners on the cabin is very differnt than the orig,but i dont have any of them and red just a small thing about them on Digger O'dells site.....

whosyerdaddy
06-05-2005, 01:17 PM
bearswede, do u remember one time they had a bill before congress to mark all imported repops with an "R" ??? i think it was voted down not really sure whosyer !!

BRIAN S.
06-05-2005, 05:14 PM
White .... Clevenger made both mold variants of the Booz ... straight roof and chamfered corner roof . Clevenger had the same problem as Whitney did , in that the straight roof corners would break easily , and as Whitney did they soon change from the straight roof variant to the beveled or chamfered roof variant.
Brian

GuntherHess
06-05-2005, 05:32 PM
Ok , here's a question...
What would you call those Franks Safe Cure bottles (I think wheaton made them?)
I've heard people call them 'fantasy' bottles since they arent really reproductions, there was no original bottle to reproduce.

I have been classifying 'non-original' bottles as ...

Fakes or Forgeries - bottles made to deceive collectors, can look just like originals.

Reproductions - made in a similar fashion to originals , usually marked as repros in some fashion (although markings can sometimes be altered). Normally intended for collectors. Often made to commemorate memorable dates.

Fantasy pieces - made as decorative items, not really intended for collectors.

whiskeyman
06-06-2005, 01:25 AM
GUNTHER...some agree with you, such as Jim Megura in his price guide...he calls them fantasy also. I agree with you in part.

Kenneth Wilson in American Bottles & Flasks and Their Ancestry has this to say:

"Reproduction of antiques has long been a profitable business and when well done and presented honestly & forthrightly,these substitutes serve a worthwhile purpose....Flasks and bottles are no exceptions:reproductions (only a few deliberately made to deceive) have been made at least since the 1920's.

In addition to the reproductions , two other categories of 20th Century bottles & flasks have become important to the collector & dealer. One is comprised of the commemoratives. The other may be called adaptations, although they are actually variations on the theme of figured flasks.
Adaptations may be described as those flasks & bottles inspired by earlier ones, those for which the form and relief design...including a caption...have been used.

There is rarely, if ever, any doubt that these flasks are 20th century products."


Further on in the book, he states: "within recent years, numerous flasks & bottles have been made that cannot properly be described as either reproductions or commemoratives. Although 19th century flasks, historicals in particular, clearly inspired their designs, these flasks & bottles vary from the originals to such an extent that they should not be called reproductions. Therefore , they are considered here as 'adaptations'."


I feel as Wilson does. As for outright fakes and forgeries, they are obviously reproductions intended to fool even the most wary collector...JMHO.