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Steve/sewell
08-13-2010, 01:22 AM
This is the most unique American made Robert Turlington bottle I have ever seen.
I believe this bottle to have been made between 1800 and 1815.I also believe it
is a product of the Glassboro New Jersey Heston and Carpenter or just Ed Carpenter's Olive
glass works as it matches in color with other known products from that factory.
The color of the bottle is green with a little aqua .The bottle has some neat striations in
the glass along with thin streaks of coloring in the neck and lip area that is very aqua.
There is a rough pontil and the lettering is barley discernable as it is washed away into the glass.
It is however the length of the neck on the bottle that makes it unique.I have never seen another
with a length of neck this long.I know the early original British versions are clear and more
rounded and quite neat looking also.Some time ago a member here at the forum posted a British
version he had found from the late 1700s


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/FFE5E3C0BD6645CF9D8A15BC5D0A12B3.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-13-2010, 01:22 AM
Picture number two.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/36EF3C862A624BA598668E51027B5330.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-13-2010, 01:23 AM
Picture number 3.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/23654ECCF0D94F26BC7DAB74B89B61B1.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-13-2010, 01:24 AM
Picture number 4 of the pontil.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/9BAB6E75791A4AF8AEABAC32F719AC5E.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-13-2010, 01:25 AM
Picture number 5.In this picture you can see the aqua thin streaks of color in the lip and neck of the bottle.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/B0D2DDBF5C0148DFA6AB5884A3288743.jpg

JustGlass
08-16-2010, 09:27 AM
Wow that is a wicked old Turlingtons. That long neck is awesome. Here's one that I have do you have a guess at what time period this one is?

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4218/E80E7538F66841AEB309CB71CAAC3E92.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 12:18 PM
Hi justglass,Your Turlington botle is very old and American made also.If I were to guess I would say 1805 to 1825.By 1835 the rolled lip was being used more on a lot of old medicines and the Turlington balsam bottles were no exception.I have a few bottles similar to yours that I have always felt were as old as the bottle I posted here.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/0FFD26D5EF214545A85FF8A34DFE6531.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Picture number 2

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/3DD4DE1138E7462EB24666AF2C24B700.jpg

RedGinger
08-16-2010, 12:38 PM
Very nice Turlington's. It's a great bottle with a great history. Thanks for sharing your pictures. It's cool to see all the different examples.

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 12:44 PM
This last group picture shows what I beleive is my oldest Turlington bottle.Robert Turlington's Balsam was the most widely used medicine of the colonial time period here in Philadelphia.It was inevitable that it would be copied and sold locally.Something to remember is we as a nation had stopped trading with Great Britain from 1776 to 1795.In 1795 the Jay treaty opened up trade with Great Britain once more.It is the period 1775 to 1795 that I beleive a lot of glassware was made in our colonial glass houses. In South Jersey the Stangers,the Heston Carpenter works,and Leesburgh,on into Pennsylvania, Kennsington and Stiegels Manheim works,on into Maryland, Kramers and Amelungs and Federal Hill,into Western Pa.Ohara,New Geneva, to New York Dowesburgh,and on into New England Pitkin,Temple,New Haven ect..All of this glass just needs to be found now.[;)]

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/080D47F8235B437F98D4322D6CAC4F99.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 12:54 PM
I owe you one of these Red.I will get it to you I promise.

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 01:12 PM
Another way to tell older Turlington bottles from their slighty newer counter parts are the round contours in the shoulders of the bottles.
The next generation still sporting the flared lip had squared shoulders in comparison.These evolved into the next generation of rounded lips.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/F4D0AE6269D245279A32BEC89BE9C5A3.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 01:50 PM
I may be missing some bottles in time periods that may straddle these but this is fairly accurate.From left to right the evolution of the Turlington bottles in a Darwinian graph.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/F67EDFFB5F03456AB8B60B8C874DFBD9.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 02:08 PM
I added some text to the picture of pontil types.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/032ECB36392D486AA06B951CECFA3E23.jpg

cyberdigger
08-16-2010, 02:19 PM
Another TOP NOTCH post, Steve!!!! [:)]

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 05:19 PM
The new and improved timeline map of the Robert Turlington bottle including the original from Great Britain.


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/71594CDD001D4F0891FED394D22AD691.jpg

Steve/sewell
08-16-2010, 05:28 PM
I wish I had the bottle all the way to the left.Do any of our British members have one or know where one is available.
I guess I should post this portion in the wanted section.

baltbottles
08-16-2010, 05:48 PM
Steve,

There is also an earlier type that is rectangular used before the 1754 type. I have seen pictures of a couple of them on the British forum. And quite a few later English flint glass ones. That date 1760s-1800. I saw one that was about twice the size of a normal Turlingtons with a 1770s patent date in flint glass few years ago at a show in Pa. Heres an early Flint glass example thta I dug in Philadelphia from a late 18th century privy.

Chris


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/94/9B80469CC35A41ED9B63077A4F670CF2.jpg

Poison_Us
08-16-2010, 07:50 PM
As always, another great post of info by you. Thank you. I have always wondered about these, I have seen them at every show we have been to. I knew they were old, but just wasn't our thing.

Road Dog
08-18-2010, 08:31 PM
Here is a flint glass one. It is rounded shoulders with a glass chip pontil. This one is 2 1/16" tall.

Road Dog
08-18-2010, 08:32 PM
Here's the pic.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/B5FABE7DF81C46A2B3483A9D71149A20.jpg

JOETHECROW
08-19-2010, 07:43 PM
Real interesting post guys,...love those little turlingtons and all the variations....That super early one is wild...

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 06:04 PM
deepbluedigger could you post any English Turlingtons or Daffys bottles you may have in this post.Thanks for visting us here in the states
in the other post (pontiled utility with label).Your vast knowledge on the early British made bottles is very helpfull to us

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 07:23 PM
The one shown above has a pontil type normally seen on English Bottles

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 07:39 PM
I really like your bottle Rory how did you aquire it?

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:05 PM
It has some lip chippage , but it only cost me 3 bucks at an antique mall in the NC mountains.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:15 PM
It has a solid rod type pontil and has english style letters like on my Rowlands. Sorry my pics are under kitchen lights.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/FADD0630006F49DFBCFD4CB2991FC97F.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 08:16 PM
Here is the updated chart.I added a Bottle baltbottles chris found.I am looking for some of the earlier original British versions if anyone has their own picture of one please post it.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/8DDE489AF8A04A888CA727ED05CAC608.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 08:18 PM
Rory could you take a straight on picture of yours and I will paste it to the opening in the chart picture.Your bottle does look British made and looks like the missing link to the American made ones.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:28 PM
Another pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/A1059A57A8BD46489597F5A60E3E5938.jpg

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:31 PM
Straight on

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/CDCA129BF93D457981D3D03427E0FD04.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 08:43 PM
The First picture was good Rory but the second one really shows the shape nicely.Tell me what you think of the new chart I hope Jerry from England chimes in.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/65662A8FE82B40AD9DC65429132DE2DD.jpg

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:47 PM
I like the chart. I know there are also newer variations than you show.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Do you have any of the newer ones Rory?The one to the far right is machine made,the seam goes all the way up to the top of the lip. I added text in the pontil type area.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/157CC5B6E5CD445794B438CB7CE8A549.jpg

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 08:58 PM
Sure don't, I sold them years ago.[:'(] Those round marks on the turlingtons you mentioned being made in South Jersey. I have a really old Houcks that has some circle marks on it. Just wondering.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:01 PM
How did they differ in shape and size from the later ones pictured Rory.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 09:08 PM
Same shape rounded lip. The writing was far more simple and larger squared uniform font. TUR/LING/ TONS one side BALSAM/OF/ LIFE other side.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:15 PM
Rory your bottle might just be one of the first check this out.I might have to move you from number 3 to number 1 on the UPI and API rankings of the Turlington bottles

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/DD8F968BE1714F08A6077B27E93B4E14.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:21 PM
Alright Rory,Your bottle is first now according to the pamphlet above.Anyone interested can download a free web book, Just google this topic and yopu can download for free.The Project Gutenberg EBook of Old English Patent Medicines in America, by George B. Griffenhagen and James Harvey Young


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/19C223B88C1944839EB769C741D206BC.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:26 PM
Here is the link for ease of use.This is a good book and it tells of the very beginings of early British medicines.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30162

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 09:32 PM
Mine has all the embossing the pic you showed has except this little guy is so short there is no " of life" and "to" on it cuz there was no room.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:39 PM
I cant just keep redoing the chart Rory,[:@]So what your saying is your bottle is a good early American Imitation.[8|][;)]

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 09:44 PM
Did they make the oldies in different sizes? This one is 2 1/16" tall.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 09:50 PM
Rory the older ones I posted in the chart are only anywhere from 2 and a an eigth to 2 and a quarter inches in height.The only strange one is the first picture in this post the girrafe necked one standing a whopping 3 and 1 eigth inches.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 09:58 PM
This one reads JAN.Y 26 1754. There is no "U" and the "Y" is higher like the drawing.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 10:07 PM
Also "LONDON" reads from the top down like the pic.

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 10:08 PM
Your bottle is looking good Rory, we need the English mates to offer up their thoughts now.Maybe they have seen your bottle before and can help verify these charts accuratley.

Road Dog
02-10-2011, 10:16 PM
One other bit of info . The tail of the "Y" in JAN.Y curves towards the N.

CazDigger
02-10-2011, 10:29 PM
You've got to be careful assuming they evolved from one form to another. Just like the old Darwin evolution of man chart, turns out it was more complicated. Different styles and forms were probably made at different glasshouse here and in England likely at the same time. Great topic and info!

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4085/B04F55487C934622BF46433016AD6342.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-10-2011, 11:04 PM
Well thats sure enough clues for one of the British guys to tell us either way Rory thanks for the information.Sorry I disappeared,I had to help my kid with some homework.I here you Caz,I could probably change this chart every two days[:D] if more people would get invovled.It would be nice to see a bunch Of Turlington bottles posted here.

JOETHECROW
02-10-2011, 11:37 PM
Interesting read,.......thanks Steve.

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 12:15 AM
Here's one, found locally that has a rolled lip, and smooth base....light blue/green aqua.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/0AC6CCF6935B4527BB6E3CCEA45AE0A1.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-11-2011, 12:21 AM
Nice Joe probably around 1840.Did you find it your self?

Steve/sewell
02-11-2011, 12:24 AM
The Turlington Bottle evolution chart.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/0F2726768F8F4E2CA65E3A086ED1151A.jpg

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 12:28 AM
ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell

Nice Joe probably around 1840.Did you find it your self?




No Steve,...an aquaintence of mine did. I've been trying to get some more pics up, but I'm having trouble lately getting them to upload w/ out being too tiny...It took me half an hour to get that one on...I'll keep trying...

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 01:11 AM
*

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/C590F6CA328B41E69CF2D5A5267F7E58.jpg

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 01:12 AM
*

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/1FD0CB477B9449EDB64CD4F70AC0C3D5.jpg

SAbottles
02-11-2011, 03:27 AM
Hi Steve; I got this one from a show in UK in the 90s. Severely curtailed embossing makes me wonder if it was a copy. But it's definitely not modern!



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/13087/5A2F4B245EDC45638D8C2656515992F2.jpg

SAbottles
02-11-2011, 03:28 AM
Reverse side

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/13087/342EB15108F040B89551D392A02E9CB1.jpg

SAbottles
02-11-2011, 03:29 AM
Uneven & crudely rolled lip:

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/13087/E3ACBA96DC2D4BFDB418167736E7D6BD.jpg

SAbottles
02-11-2011, 03:31 AM
Seam line running up corner; base is smooth hinge mould with no pontil -

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/13087/1C2644F5F569421C962698B9B4C0CAAE.jpg

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 07:47 AM
Steve found a small group pic of the ones I sold. The two on the right are o.p. and the left are newers.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/663319B5CC734EF9A6F15D3B5AD383DD.jpg

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 07:48 AM
Found this pic on the site.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/B60CBF5FD5464B538FB819D9003BDD68.jpg

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 07:50 AM
I think Matt posted this before

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/1E7062419D9D4E18A8C54FD808393C61.jpg

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 08:12 AM
Link to Jerry's Site.
http://www.diggersdiary.co.uk/Collections/Patentmedicines1.htm

dollarbill
02-11-2011, 09:29 AM
I've had 2 of this ,One pontiled disk lip one that had very little embossing that was readable ,And this one with a rolled lip and pontil with all the embossing .
bill

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/3826/228FBF7253D741B7925680B2508C6753.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-11-2011, 09:30 AM
SAbottles nice looking,did you dig this one? That could be an 1860 bottle.Nice I have never seen one with a sheared lip.Rory great pictures.The ones to the left in your picture are hand blown correct just later 1880s to 90s.I wish Jerry would join in to this post.They in England are much more authoritative on these bottles then us over here. Rory the hour glass shaped bottle is very old also.That is the same bottle I posted that was found at Grumblethorp in Philadelphia John Wistars mansion home.I wonder if the pamphlet I posted was indeed the first Turlington.

Steve/sewell
02-11-2011, 09:32 AM
dollarbill thats a good one 1840 or so and again different in form a somewhat flared out rolled lip.

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 09:51 AM
ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell

SAbottles nice looking,did you dig this one? That could be an 1860 bottle.Nice I have never seen one with a sheared lip.Rory great pictures.The ones to the left in your picture are hand blown correct just later 1880s to 90s.I wish Jerry would join in to this post.They in England are much more authoritative on these bottles then us over here. Rory the hour glass shaped bottle is very old also.That is the same bottle I posted that was found at Grumblethorp in Philadelphia John Wistars mansion home.I wonder if the pamphlet I posted was indeed the first Turlington.



Yeah, those are tooled lips. Could be into the 1900's as I'm sure the switch to ABM by some took abit longer.

Road Dog
02-11-2011, 09:56 AM
ORIGINAL: dollarbill

I've had 2 of this ,One pontiled disk lip one that had very little embossing that was readable ,And this one with a rolled lip and pontil with all the embossing .
bill

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/3826/228FBF7253D741B7925680B2508C6753.jpg


The lip/neck treatment on that one looks like the type on the tiny vial bottles on that other post . The one found on West Stiegel Street Steve showed.

SAbottles
02-11-2011, 01:33 PM
Hi Steve; no I bought it at one of the UK National Shows, so it was dug in UK. I don't know of any dug out here, though there might well have been. Will check around.

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Rory,...I noticed that too,...Here's Dale's example's neck (Turlingtons)....

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/DBCAECCBE50A463A8E5B60356C0C95BC.jpg

JOETHECROW
02-11-2011, 02:48 PM
Steve's "mini bottle" neck...

There's a fair similarity...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/6ED43541F5134784A8EA1643705D2FF9.jpg

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 02:42 PM
I emailed Walter Devault about my Turlington bottle. He felt it was English , but could be a countereit. There is no way to tell for sure. He felt it dates in the 1780 to 1810 range, but hard to be exact about that. He told me the Turlingtons came in 2 sizes and mine was the smaller size. He currently has a collection of 150 Turlingtons. Maybe, we can get him on here to aid in our discussion. He sent me a some pics of some old clear Turlingtons and an 1750 Turlington.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/548F39D5E1CB419B84D7ACEE7EF17A4E.jpg

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 02:43 PM
The 1750.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/0AC355CBCA5E48F68696771FCAFBC6F3.jpg

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 02:44 PM
another pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/E1EB5127942648BDB4C901B8BFC98452.jpg

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 02:45 PM
another pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/63C4BE02596B4C2DAFDE6F4FBAD39E64.jpg

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 02:46 PM
last pic of the 1750 Turlington

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/79DD32AE13D3465B994B28AA6F87EB19.jpg

JOETHECROW
02-12-2011, 03:21 PM
Cool info Rory....WOW! on the 1750! is it headless?[:D]

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 05:35 PM
Yeah, he's looking for a professional to restore a top on it.

CazDigger
02-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Those are awesome! Is the clear one with the thin flared (2nd from the left) lip US made???

Steve/sewell
02-12-2011, 09:04 PM
The early headless one is the same as the one in my chart I suspected was the oldest.The picture of the one I used in my chart was found at the Wyck residence in Philadelphia .Here are some links to the web pages of Stenton.

http://stenton.org/index.php/history-collections-and-interpretation/the-ins-and-outs-of-the-stenton-collection/

http://stenton.org/index.php/history-collections-and-interpretation/archaeological-explorations-at-stenton/

JOETHECROW
02-12-2011, 09:37 PM
The early headless one is the same as the one in my chart I suspected was the oldest.

So I'm a touch confused,...I see now, it was the same as the one you showed earlier in the thread Steve...So is the 1750 one the oldest one known so far?

Road Dog
02-12-2011, 09:40 PM
The 1750 and 51 are the same shape. There is suppose to be older ones than that and Walter is searching for one.

Road Dog
02-13-2011, 06:32 PM
ORIGINAL: CazDigger

Those are awesome! Is the clear one with the thin flared (2nd from the left) lip US made???



They all have english type pontils, but could have easily been early america made with english techniques.

baltbottles
02-13-2011, 09:00 PM
If I'm not mistaken there is either one that dates around 1742 or 45 something like that that is actually rectangular in shape. That is believed to be his first bottle.

The picture of the 4 flint glass ones Roy posted look like the kind I have seen in 1770s-1780s privies.

Chris

Road Dog
02-13-2011, 09:16 PM
Walter sent me a picture of a copy of a Turlington 1880 Broadside. It has a copy of Turlingtons Signature as opposed to the originals that were actually signed. The bottles would have been wrapped in this. I can email copies you can read if anyone is interested. Walter emailed me large copies.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/99410F79CFED41289089ECDB28C290DD.jpg

Road Dog
02-13-2011, 09:17 PM
Front

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/D4F680FFF0C04F4E9D887A8451A44926.jpg

baltbottles
02-13-2011, 11:32 PM
Rory,

send me an email with the readable file.

Thanks Chris

JOETHECROW
02-14-2011, 12:35 AM
Rory,...p.m ed you with my e mail, but my pm's have been inconsistent. Just in case you didn't get it please let me know,...I'd love to have a copy of the broadside. Thank you.

earlyglasscollector
02-14-2011, 06:58 AM
Baltbottles......that would be this one you are looking for then...?
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/images/objects/ceramic_and_glass/batch7/full/A22882.jpg

regards
egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

earlyglasscollector
02-14-2011, 07:02 AM
...sorry...inscribed 'Robert Turlington by the Kings Patent 1748'
Regards
Mark egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

Road Dog
02-14-2011, 08:51 AM
Mark , that is awesome. Is it yours?

baltbottles
02-14-2011, 12:13 PM
Mark,

That would be the one I was thinking of. I have seen that picture before.

Chris

Steve/sewell
02-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Good information everyone.Finally some good early glass chat back and fourth.It took a second British invasion by the fab 2 to acheive this,thanks Jerry and Mark [;)]you guys are a very good addition to this forum.Rory could you send me the file of the broadside also. Thanks Steve.

JOETHECROW
02-14-2011, 01:26 PM
ORIGINAL: earlyglasscollector

Baltbottles......that would be this one you are looking for then...?
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/images/objects/ceramic_and_glass/batch7/full/A22882.jpg

regards
egcÂ*Â* www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)



Question.... That bottle is ancient, by american standards....Isn't that way early for embossing on a bottle? Or were English counterparts embossed regularly by then? (It IS english, right?)[;)] Very cool.

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 07:23 AM
ORIGINAL: JOETHECROW



ORIGINAL: earlyglasscollector

Baltbottles......that would be this one you are looking for then...?
http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/images/objects/ceramic_and_glass/batch7/full/A22882.jpg

regards
egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)



Question.... That bottle is ancient, by american standards....Isn't that way early for embossing on a bottle? Or were English counterparts embossed regularly by then? (It IS english, right?)[;)] Very cool.

I think that Jerry will agree with me that 1740's IS about as early as mold making and therefore embossing goes....certainly it was common enough by 1750's. There is for instance a 1752 newspaper paragraph referring to "one Brass Bottle-Mould value 18s..,the property of Mr Thomas Warren & Co.,(stolen) from the Glasshouse in Temple street" Thomas Warren was a successful perfumer/chemist and has a number of early bottles in his name.But yes, I would say that the Turlington example above is probably one of the earliest. Turlington was obviously a far sighted guy, quick to spot the marketing benefits of any new process and undoubtedly one of the first to use the new embossing technique as it became available, initially with a relatively plain shape bottle, but then taking it to further extremes with the eyecatching and in particular the memorable and distinctive cello shaped bottle just a few years later. Remember that few could read at this date so his medicine would have stood out amongst the plain practical shapes of the competition. Also, we do not go back much further to see advertisements for medicines illustrating plainly freeblown phials and similar shapes, obviously not embossed. One example I'll look out being 1727, obviously standard practice for the period.
egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

cowseatmaize
02-15-2011, 08:55 AM
I think that Jerry will agree with me that 1740's IS about as early as mold making and therefore embossing goesMolds have been used much longer than that. There are examples of Roman mold blown glass as early as 1'st century and probably earlier, if not Roman, another culture. It may not have been a common practice but was possible.

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 09:01 AM
...just abit of fun, here's one I have with "snake oil" contents..obviously re-used

for those that can't quite see, that's a rattlesnake rattle floating near the top, and a claw at the bottom.
When it gets cold the oil in there coagulates into creamy blobs. I think it is fairly original, at least I paid no more for it than any bog standard non pontilled late American Turlington, so nobody made any money by doing it. It's proper old pack thread and genuine buckskin on top.
egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 09:16 AM
ORIGINAL: cowseatmaize


I think that Jerry will agree with me that 1740's IS about as early as mold making and therefore embossing goesMolds have been used much longer than that. There are examples of Roman mold blown glass as early as 1'st century and probably earlier, if not Roman, another culture. It may not have been a common practice but was possible.


...yes of course, but like I mentioned on one of my posts, stuff came round in cycles, materials and methods got invented, used, forgotten about and re-invented again. Obviously you have to take your hat off to the Romano Syrians, who created totaL MASTERPIECES in glassware, the like of which we can't reproduce now, but in the quote above I was referring to the British Glass industry of the 18th C. Yes, before you catch me out again ([;)]), I am aware of the various early crude two piece molds such as those used in the Holstein bottles etc and the earlier patterning molds of medieaval/renaisance periods, but I was referring to molding in combination with lettering that was a spin off of metal hinged part molds.

egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

cowseatmaize
02-15-2011, 09:43 AM
Yes, before you catch me out again ([:D]),
Of coarse I knew that you knew that.[:D] No offense intended. Some people still believe what they read. Some people still believe everything after 1909 was machine made.[:)]

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 09:50 AM
ORIGINAL: earlyglasscollector

...just abit of fun, here's one I have with "snake oil" contents..obviously re-used

for those that can't quite see, that's a rattlesnake rattle floating near the top, and a claw at the bottom.
When it gets cold the oil in there coagulates into creamy blobs. I think it is fairly original, at least I paid no more for it than any bog standard non pontilled late American Turlington, so nobody made any money by doing it. It's proper old pack thread and genuine buckskin on top.
egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

oops sorry guys missed the picture out. Will try and get that sorted
https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/nightdes/P1060619.jpg
egc

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 09:51 AM
this is weird, why aren't my pics coming out now?
egc

cowseatmaize
02-15-2011, 09:53 AM
I'm still trying to work on that for different browsers.https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/nightdes/P1060619.jpg
not caps. Don't ask me why.

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 10:06 AM
Thanks. Yes, computers!!!![:@]
Will try to remember those amends...
egc

Steve/sewell
02-15-2011, 10:34 AM
The updated chart.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/22B2C9A44A2A44E7A48F70CB873591BE.jpg

earlyglasscollector
02-15-2011, 10:54 AM
Also, we do not go back much further to see advertisements for medicines illustrating plainly freeblown phials and similar shapes, obviously not embossed. One example I'll look out being 1727, obviously standard practice for the period. [quote]ORIGINAL: earlyglasscollector

https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/nightdes/P1060610.jpg

There you go...freeblown phials/utilities etc for pre 1740 meds..
egc

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 07:02 PM
A few more pics of the 1748 bottle. Walter sent me these. I have these pics in much larger size if anyone wants an email.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/88F7ABA36F6140189664E467C51A479F.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 07:03 PM
another pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/F41422147FA74D18AAB304FD4114AB28.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 07:03 PM
one more pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/11621638064443C0A86ADF7DCB8F8174.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 07:10 PM
Another early Turlington. Just a sketch.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/826AF8A32AA343C38A24C839BD38952C.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 07:16 PM
Walter sent me this pic. I can email it if you want it larger. He placed the larger sized ones on the top. All are pontilled. Note the amethyst one.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/EE64C2431A024BC4A1CE28FB78935D4B.jpg

JOETHECROW
02-16-2011, 07:40 PM
ORIGINAL: cowseatmaize

I'm still trying to work on that for different browsers.https://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m309/nightdes/P1060619.jpg
not caps. Don't ask me why.




This is very cool,...Just as a piece of probable Americana! Thanks everyone for all the interesting early examples, sketches, info and a great informative thread!

Steve/sewell
02-16-2011, 07:40 PM
Nice information Rory,if you would please email me the additional material that would be great.Thanks again Rory

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 09:39 PM
I read something about many of thr Turlingtons found in archeological digs in America had the word Balsom. The ones made by Dyott had the spelling as Balsom. Where as the English ones had the spelling as Balsam. American version with an "O" and English version with an "A". Anyone read about this before? Think there is any truth to it?[8|]

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 11:05 PM
Two different Turlington bottles. These pics are from old text.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/55675FA1305743D88779A2FFFDC6F54A.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 11:05 PM
the other

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/F6041F183B3443DF92DD0616DF54088E.jpg

Road Dog
02-16-2011, 11:15 PM
My mistake. [:@]Those two pictures are of the 1751 bottle.

Steve/sewell
02-16-2011, 11:53 PM
Rory,
Helen Mckearin may have started the myth that on Dr. Dyotts Turlington bottles the word Balsam was spelled Balsom spelled with an O instaead of an A.The picture shown on page 79 shows Turlingtons with Balsam spelled incorrectly as Balsom.The bottles pictured in the book cant 100 percent be attributed to Dyott.In an ad placed by Dyott in a newspaper in my possesion he spells balsam correctly with an A.Thanks for all the great information and time you have spent in this post it is much appreciated.Here are pages 78 and 79 from Helen Mckearins Bottles Flasks and Dr Dyott.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/A7489083EF5344C88A196FC49C6B2B2A.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-16-2011, 11:54 PM
The bottles in question.On the first and third bottle you can see the O instead of an A in the word Balsam........ Balsom.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/2D21522DB94645E59AA2925496345A6C.jpg

Steve/sewell
02-16-2011, 11:59 PM
Dr. Dyott ad from the year 1817 in the The American Centinel and Mercantile Advertiser May 19th 1817 front page.This is a Large inventory ad that had to cost him quite a bit back in the day.Here you can see he spells Balsam correctly.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/2D1E1F4075834769BA4C76AE01C5A0EE.jpg

deepbluedigger
02-17-2011, 06:49 AM
How'd I miss this thread up to now? Great stuff. Have spent the last 15 minutes reading the earlier posts to catch up.

Walter's Turlingtons collection is truly exceptional - he's got some great stuff, and the 1750 bottle ('violin shape')is a super-rare find, with or without the neck and lip.

I've got a small group of Turlingtons, both British and American. I'll get some decent photos and post them here.

The most recent photo-chronology that Steve has put up seems to be getting pretty close. Very interesting to see info from someone who has a good feel for the earlier US made Turlington bottles. That is like gold dust for me, since I'm trying to figure out early US bottles from a distance.

This, and the discussion on the other 'labelled phial' thread, has made be more certain that the early flint one I mentioned as possibly being American, is actually British.

Until quite recently there was an opinion among collectors of early British bottles that Turlington was possibly the earliest user of embossed bottles on a commercial scale here. But now it seems that he was just one of several who were all using embossed during the 1740s. Others include Richard Rock (Rock's Viper Drops: an incredible bottle), Jacksons Tincture (this is not the same as Jacksons Cordial Bitter Tincture, which is slightly later), and probably at least two Daffy's Elixir proprietors.

If there are records of that many users of embossed bottles there must have been others, and for so many to have been using embossed bottles in the early to mid 1740s I suspect the practice may have started ten or twenty years earlier, although so far there's no hard evidence for that.

There were moulded bottles in Roman times, and later in SE Europe / the middle east, but in Britain and NW Europe, and especially for commercial containers rather than luxury items, mould blowing with embossing doesn't seem to have been revived until the 1st half of the 18th century (as Mark will confirm, there are some early 18th century 'freeblown' wines with faint embossing. I suspect that was done by shaping on an engraved marver rather than in a mould).

The exact timing of Turlington first marketing his medicine is unclear, but he was almost certainly selling the stuff before the 1744 date of his patent. He changed his bottle shape at least 3 times between the mid 1740s and 1754, each time because his medicine and previous bottle type was being widely copied / faked.
- His earliest bottle was probably a standard unembossed freeblown phial. But maybe not. It's a mystery.
- His first embossed bottle was probably the tapered rectangular one (photo posted earlier, damaged example in the Museum of London). Dates seem to vary. On the Museum of London bottle the date seems to be 1748, but there are newspaper adverts showing this bottle at least as early as 1746.
- His second bottle was probably the violin shaped bottle. Several examples known, including Walter's necked bottle. Probably introduced around 1750.
- His third bottle was what he called his 'tablet' shaped bottle (probably thinking of 'a tablet of stone' rather than a medicine tablet), with the 1754 date. That became the standard over the next 150 years, with all the variations that turn up on both sides of the Atlantic.

There are plenty of mysteries about his bottles. For example, most violin shaped bottles have a 1750 date, but examples are known with both 1751 and 1752 dates (one example turned up in the Caribbean). So maybe with that bottle, and the previous one, he changed the date on the mould every year in an effort to keep ahead of the forgers.

Will post some photos of my very few Turlington bottles later.

Someone asked to see a Daffy's or two, so in the meantime here's my current favourite Daffy's bottle. I was a bit disappointed a couple of weeks ago when I found some information that disproves my previous theory about who the proprietor of this bottle was.

I had thought it was Anthony Daffy Swinton (very interesting but nasty - in fact probably psychopathic - character who ended his days transported to Australia for theft of a gold watch. It was a capital crime at the time but for some reason this sentence was not imposed). But it turns out his bottles were different. So it's back to the drawing board with this one. (It can't be the original Dr A Daffy, as he was a 17th century quack who was dead by the late 1680s. There then followed 150 years of feuding between different sides of the family about who owned the rights to, and sold, the genuine article. Several different characters, including Swinton, seem to have called themselves Dr Anthony Daffy during the late 18th and early 19th centuries).

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/73DA5BB48D62470E8F4CBBB4741ACFE1.jpg

earlyglasscollector
02-17-2011, 07:05 AM
Nice post Jerry, was wondering where you were, which probably accounts for why you haven't answered the Cephalic snuff thread also?..... Check it out, you'll hav eplenty to say there I'm sure. (I used one of your pics there by the way).
egc

Road Dog
02-17-2011, 07:40 AM
There seems to have been an effort to combat the counterfeiting problem. All the spelling variations:
IANY, JANY, JANU, JAN

BALSOM, BALSAM, BALSLM, BALSM

ROYALL, ROYAL

and like Jerry mentioned the changing of the dates and styles of bottles as well.

Road Dog
02-17-2011, 07:46 AM
ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell

Dr. Dyott ad from the year 1817 in the The American Centinel and Mercantile Advertiser May 19th 1817 front page.This is a Large inventory ad that had to cost him quite a bit back in the day.Here you can see he spells Balsam correctly.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/2D1E1F4075834769BA4C76AE01C5A0EE.jpg


Offers for sale from the American and European Manufactories? Wonder if that is why the spelling is with an "A' here? Before the 1820's was Dyott a distributor more than a glass maker for these? Great ad Steve, one of your newspapers?

earlyglasscollector
02-17-2011, 08:03 AM
I would personally say that all those spelling variations are not so much an effort to combat counterfeitors as a simple lack of literacy, (logical though Road Dog's suggestion would seem to all of us) and the fact that there was no officially defined or rather accepted spelling of words until early 19th Century in UK. Interestingly one of the reasons this WAS encouraged was the upsurgence of American versions of spelling and the seen requirement here (uk) then to definitely differentiate between American and Briton cultures. The abolishing of the long S (or F as it appears, was one of the signs of this, and there are few books with the long S after 1810.
But even when there was accepted correct spelling, the majority of those with reading and writing abilities would not have placed over much emphasis on getting it "right". Phonectic spelling was commonplace (spelling it like it sounded). Even those craftsmen working with lettering often still could not necessarily read themselves, which inevitably lead to some of the humurous mistakes we see within bottles, sometimes with inverted letters, often with odd spellings. We also see the practice of "cramming in" and forshortening or abreviating words to fit into wherever was needed, We see this particularly on early Turlingtons, but also on early seals of wine bottles etc. Such haphazard working and slack attitude to correctness is something we wince at now, but then this was not seen to be so important.
Simple changes of spelling in any case would rarely have been noticed or appreciated by the average buyer, only the shape.

egc www.earlyglass.com (http://www.earlyglass.com)

Road Dog
02-17-2011, 08:20 AM
True Mark those early glassmakers could have used some spelling lessons.[:D] The Turlington of mine I posted has all the letters crammed in so they are not evev in a line. Embossing is up to the neck and under the bottle. Some of the words are missing as well. Makes it all the more interesting for folks trying to piece history together to make some sort of sense.

cowseatmaize
02-17-2011, 08:29 AM
So it's back to the drawing board with this one. (It can't be the original Dr A Daffy, as he was a 17th century quack who was dead by the late 1680s.Although it's different it's similar with the TW Dyott and Robertson story. Dates and stuff don't match.

During his lifetime, Thomas W. Dyott himself claimed to be the grandson of the
celebrated Dr. Robertson of Edinburgh. Unfortunately, not only is there no evidence that
he was Dr. Robertson’s grandson, but also there is no record of a Dr. Robertson
practicing in Edinburgh during the time. The only other tidbit of information about
Thomas W. Dyott’s life during this period is a statement made by one of his intimates,
claiming that Thomas W. Dyott served an apprenticeship to an English druggist, who
taught him the art of making boot-blacking. Much more HERE (http://www.manheim1762.org/files/Revised_Dr._Dyott_-_2.pdf)

deepbluedigger
02-17-2011, 08:41 AM
I think Mark is probably right about literacy. It's likely that there just wasn't a need to be especially accurate among the forgers, for all kinds of reasons including illiteracy among the end buyers.

It's also worth bearing in mind that by 1800 the medicine had probably more or less progressed to the status of a generic: a bit like aspirin today, with numerous manufacturers and retailers. Even the stuff put in the bottles was probably highly variable by then.

Turlington himself was long dead, and the legal proprietors of the medicine by that time, at least in Britain and the existing colonies, were the Wray family, but trying to protect and enforce their rights was difficult, and in the US probably impossible.

So there was less pressure for detailed conformity to the original bottle design among people selling the medicine, and there was a gradual increase in bottles which were less and less like the originals (for example, with very little embossing, like the "The King's Patent // Turlingtons Balsam" bottles without any other embossing).

There probably never has been a US-manufactured Turlington's bottle that contained medicine from Turlington himself, or from the Wrays (but both of those proprietors are known to have exported their medicine, in bottles, to the US).

deepbluedigger
02-18-2011, 07:20 AM
My 4 flint glass Turlingtons (the damaged one on the left is the one Chris posted a picture of earlier in this thread)

I'd be interested to hear what people think about likely dates for these, or even which date order is most likely. I have some ideas, but no real confidence in them.

(apologies for marking it: I've started doing that recently because a few of my photos turned up in for-profit hard copy publications here in the UK late last year without so much as an acknowledgement or by-your-leave).

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/BCD1FC22695744BA88297714EBCCE5A1.jpg

deepbluedigger
02-18-2011, 07:25 AM
I only have one US pontiled Turlingtons, but I think it's a great little bottle. The one on the left in this photo. The one on the right is another US bottle, post mould, no pontil, with a really nice rainbow patina in the right light. Probably just post-pontil, maybe 1860s -70s?



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/655B06403F1E447395E2A58B3ADA7D84.jpg

deepbluedigger
02-18-2011, 07:28 AM
Three of the most common type of Daffy's bottle: Dicey & Co, London. On the left is sand pontil, probably about 1830 - 40. Middle is solid pontil, but very difficult to date. Possibly very early, maybe as late as the 1850s. The aqua one on the right is 1860s-ish, glass chip pontil.



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/CE5F63F1DC224F8BADCBB42A02F99C61.jpg

deepbluedigger
02-18-2011, 07:30 AM
Generic Daffy's of unusual and possibly early form (all side panels concave: common on small British flint glass meds and perfumes bottles, but rare on larger bottles). Circular solid pontil. Generic Daffy's are very varied. Dozens (probably hundreds in total) of different types known in all colours from clear flint via green and amber to darkest black, and even pale blue.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/62957B33E6EE4DB98DE7DA5CB0826FEB.jpg

Road Dog
02-18-2011, 08:29 AM
Found this transcript online fron the Salisbury and Winchester Journal Feb 28th 1785
By the King's Patent.
TURLINGTON's Original BALSAM of LIFE,
PREPARED and sold by MARTHA WRAY, neice, the patentee, at their Wholesale Warehouse, No.14, Birchin-lane, London. This valuable medicine is strongly recommended by many persons of the first rank, as a sovereign remedy for the gravel, cholic, gout, rheumatism, asthmatical complaints, pleurelic disorders, coughs, agues, decays of nature, inward weaknesses, broken constitutions, and all inward bleedings of whatsoever nature. If outwardly applied, it is a sovereign remedy for cuts and green wounds.- The great demand for this balsam hath caused a number of counterfeits; and to prevent as much as possible a base and spurious sort, that is sold under the name of Turlington's Balsam, the public are most earnestly requested to observe, that the directions are signed by Hilton Wray only, in writing ink; the arms on the margin of the directions is the same as the bottles are sealed with. Price 3s. 6d. and 1s. 9d.
Of whom may be had, HAMILTON's TINCTURE for the TOOTH-ACH, which in a few minutes will cure the most violent pain, without drawing. This Tincture gives immediate ease, and cures all disorders in the mouth and gums; in a few days using will fasten the teeth, if ever so loose, and with a little continuance will perfectly cure the scurvy in the gums; it also prevents the teeth from rotting; keeping those that are decayed from becoming worse, and takes off all disagreeable smells from the breath. Price 2s. 6d.
Also to be had at the above place, his CINNAMON DROPS, which are a sovereign cure for all disorders affecting the stomach and bowels, cold chills, pleuretic pains, numbness, of the flesh, and the most violent rheumatic pains, even from a contraction of the limbs. Price 3s. 6d.
Likewise his ASTHMATIC EFFLUVIA, which given immediate ease in all asthmas, or difficulty in breathing, or all other disorders affecting the breath or lungs, without taking any thing inwardly. Price 5s. 6d.- 10s. 6d. and ÂŁ1. 1s. per bottle.
The above articles are sold by B.C. Collins, on the Canal, Salisbury; the booksellers as mentioned at the foot of this page, and the newsmen

Road Dog
02-18-2011, 08:36 AM
ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

My 4 flint glass Turlingtons (the damaged one on the left is the one Chris posted a picture of earlier in this thread)

I'd be interested to hear what people think about likely dates for these, or even which date order is most likely. I have some ideas, but no real confidence in them.

(apologies for marking it: I've started doing that recently because a few of my photos turned up in for-profit hard copy publications here in the UK late last year without so much as an acknowledgement or by-your-leave).

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/BCD1FC22695744BA88297714EBCCE5A1.jpg


That's a tough one. Those 3 on the right could all be within 30 years of each other. I feel pretty comfortable with 1780's to 1810 on those. Of course, earlier on the left one. Maybe 1760's or 70's. With all the glasshouses and molds it would be hard to place an order on the last 3.

On a side note, What was the progression of Turlington bottles in Britain. I only see very old examples. I'm assuming that it continued to exist in Britain as it did in America. Atleast to 1906 or so?

Road Dog
02-18-2011, 08:39 AM
ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

Three of the most common type of Daffy's bottle: Dicey & Co, London. On the left is sand pontil, probably about 1830 - 40. Middle is solid pontil, but very difficult to date. Possibly very early, maybe as late as the 1850s. The aqua one on the right is 1860s-ish, glass chip pontil.



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/CE5F63F1DC224F8BADCBB42A02F99C61.jpg


Daffy's rule! That center bottle with that lip and all sure looks atleast 1830's. Atleast when compared to American standards of that time.

Road Dog
02-18-2011, 11:39 AM
This is an interesting read. Has mention of both Daffy's and Turlingtons
http://www.quackwatch.com/13Hx/TM/01.html

JOETHECROW
02-18-2011, 02:09 PM
Daffy's rule! That center bottle with that lip and all sure looks atleast 1830's. Atleast when compared to American standards of that time


I'm with Rory on that thought...I'd love to have any one of those.[;)]

JustGlass
02-26-2011, 10:07 PM
This is one I posted earlier. Just thought that I would add that this bottle is the variation that has a o instead of an a in the embossed word Balsom. Also the date on the side is JAN with the Y above the N.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4218/6C37B7A73528429BA8D4F9C01F77562E.jpg

JustGlass
02-26-2011, 10:08 PM
.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4218/7E9C31207DF34200807C3AEEC1132391.jpg

JustGlass
02-26-2011, 10:27 PM
Balsom instead of Balsam

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4218/C576D589D2974C86A23059934AB71E10.jpg

Road Dog
03-01-2011, 01:25 PM
Nice bottle. Has a nice readable date too. I like how these bottles jumble the letters around, misalign them and leave out whole words to make things fit. I can't say I've seen that on any other bottle.

baltbottles
03-02-2011, 12:58 AM
ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

Three of the most common type of Daffy's bottle: Dicey & Co, London. On the left is sand pontil, probably about 1830 - 40. Middle is solid pontil, but very difficult to date. Possibly very early, maybe as late as the 1850s. The aqua one on the right is 1860s-ish, glass chip pontil.



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/CE5F63F1DC224F8BADCBB42A02F99C61.jpg


Jerry The middle one looks kind of like the shard I sent you. The pit that shard was found in was filled in by the 1820s and most of the layer in the pit was earlier.

Chris

deepbluedigger
03-15-2011, 05:31 AM
Thanks Chris: useful info. You're right. Color is almost identical, and even the pontil marks are very similar (circular, same size, from a glass tipped solid rod). I have another very similar sherd to the one you dug (obtained from another forum member!), which still has the lip, which is the same as the lip on the bottle in the photo above.

deepbluedigger
03-15-2011, 04:15 PM
All three. The sherd from Chris is on the left. The complete bottle is so whittled that it's difficult to show the embossing in photos.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/FFB286327D3E4F8FA7D873DBB115BF70.jpg

deepbluedigger
03-15-2011, 04:16 PM
Lips pretty much identical:



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/37DE673F8273436FA898539B93B2EBBD.jpg

Road Dog
04-08-2011, 09:37 PM
A couple more Turlington pics.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/42FC340717AC464FA44C67DA8112CFAD.jpg

Road Dog
04-08-2011, 09:37 PM
another

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/78BDEBCE58EB4554AEDE083546F61575.jpg

Road Dog
04-08-2011, 09:58 PM
Seems to have been different Recipes for Turlingtons Balsam. Found this bit of info

Turlington’s Balsam (of Life)

Consumption p. 5

Noted by Osborn as “Turlington Bals of Life”.

Balsam for a Pectoral expectorant.

“astumac Disorders and Consumption” p. 10

Noted as “the balsam…”

Turlington’s Balsam is a proprietary medicine invented in 1744 be Robert Turlington. The original recipe consisted of twenty-seven ingredients. Basically, this medicine is a Compound Tincture of Benzoin. Its advertising, its uses, and, at times, its success, led to its fame as a panacea. Other names have included Balsamum Catholicum, Balsamum Commendatoris, Jesuit’s drops, and Balsamum Equitis Sanctis Victoris (Balsam of the Holy Victorius Knight. It became an official medicine in 1746 when it was accepted as a Wound Balsam and was given the official name Balsamum Traumaticum. Other uses for this medicine included as a cure for the stones, colic, and assorted “inward weaknesses.”

Early on, during his presentation on how to treat Consumption and “other Astumac Disorders”, Dr. Osborn describes his version of Turlington’s Balsam. He lists as its ingredients Aloes, Gum Benzoin, Gum Styrax, Myrrh, and Angelica (root?) and St. John’s Wort, all of which are added to West India Rum and then left to ferment in the sun for ten days.

The simplest recipe is found in Remington’s Pharmacy and consists of Benzoin, Aloe, Storax, and Balsam Tolu. Other recipes noted in the literature are much lengthier.

Osborn’s recipe compares best with those given in Hoblyn’s and Estes Dictionaries. Unlike these, he excludes Balsam Tolu and Balsam Peru. Whereas Hoblyn’s Dictionary notes an extract of Glycyrrhiza, Osborn’s recipe included powdered St. John’s Wort, the reason for which is unknown.

JOETHECROW
04-09-2011, 02:58 AM
Very good info and cool recipes! Thanks for posting that Rory.

cowseatmaize
04-09-2011, 08:14 AM
Osborn’s recipe included powdered St. John’s Wort, the reason for which is unknown. In Charles Millspaughs "Medicinal Plants" of 1892 he notes a Brazilian species used as an astringent for sore throats. That would go along nicely in a consumption cure.
In Russia one was thought to cure Rabies and another species used in the Isle of France as a specific for syphilis.

Road Dog
04-09-2011, 08:04 PM
Thanks for the info. Think it was the Tannin in it that gave it's infammatory properties. Here's another old Turlingtons Recipe also with St Johns Wort.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/59D91F8F226D4147BDB7249D571A9258.jpg

Road Dog
04-10-2011, 11:04 PM
Another Recipe for Turingtons Balsam. William Dicks Encyclopedia for Recipes and Processes it's great reading. This is on page 469.
http://www.archive.org/stream/encyclopediaofpr00dickrich#page/n5/mode/2up

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/06A4101B6A0F4DFB9D4B86637AA9D1E4.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:39 AM
ORIGINAL: Road Dog

It has some lip chippage , but it only cost me 3 bucks at an antique mall in the NC mountains.
Its a win win for all, your 47 ahead and I am ecstatic Rory!!

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:48 AM
I recently obtained Rory (Road dogs) Flint glass Turlington bottle.This is a very old version of this bottle after 1754 but I quite confident before 1780.I have colored the embossing of the letters in water color ink.This bottle is less then one and three quarter inches tall.This first picture is for comparative reasons only. They could really cram the letters on these bottles.I used a high powered lens from a telescope I am building to look at the glass close up The magnification allowed me to see the date on the side of the bottle.




https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/937D2EB996594D83807A2D81B02B1715.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:54 AM
I also have good reason to believe that this bottle is English in origin and it does spell the word Balsam as Balsom.
Here is the patent drawing Robert Turlington applied for in 1754.This bottle is very similar to this drawing.


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/133841866B3145C6A2268A5C38A1B372.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:56 AM
Some more pictures from various angles.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/C4E58BC156984296AEDA0678355FF10B.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:56 AM
3.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/018E558DAB7040A2BF71708DED46BAAC.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:57 AM
4.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/5A8A7027E9BD42759DA7CC3A9734E164.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:57 AM
5.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/781EA40CFCFF44B0BCA5F05A899F7584.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:58 AM
6.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/AD94310428DC42D0B9A1374F97B7D79E.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:59 AM
7.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/1CF86B775F984B22B5A991A040B7F42D.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:59 AM
8.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/CE97D46298D642D9B8C47411D703ECA7.jpg

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 10:00 AM
9.Another comparison picture.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/9D4BC1D545D740AFB88D039E4AF8F78D.jpg

AntiqueMeds
09-10-2011, 07:51 PM
I've tried to keep track of them over the years but I find it very tough. There are so many variants and the embossing is often really hard to read in a photo (sometimes its hard to read even holding it in your hands :))

Road Dog
09-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Glad the bottle got there safely Steve and glad you like it.

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 09:49 PM
Thanks for checking in Matt and Rory,I have some more material I am getting ready to post in the near future.I love the bottle Rory he is in very good company surrounded by by these guys in a display case.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/FCEC7684776E46148DFD082DD3A8388B.jpg

Road Dog
09-10-2011, 10:06 PM
Quite a village you got there![:D]

Steve/sewell
09-10-2011, 10:22 PM
Yeah the cabins are probably still my favorite Rory,Have you ever owned an original Whitney made Booz bottle? They are quite a bottle.All of the cabin bottles are really neat for that matter and will hold their values in the worst of economic times.They got me hook line and ...................bank account[:D]

KarlK
03-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Have I missed it, or have we chatted about other mispellings? The A/O in Balsam/Balsom but I recently seen on Ebay a BALSLM, no doubt it was a "L". Anyone seen this.


Okay, editing here, just saw Road Dog mentioned it.

Now, if I can only find a nice small square embossed late 18th century essense of peppermint, I'd be happy

AntiqueMeds
03-01-2012, 02:21 PM
yes there are a bunch of variations for that bottle.

Road Dog
03-02-2012, 07:14 AM
Steve here is a large version of the one I sold you. You may have saw it . It was on Feebay awhile back. It had lip damage. Price was pretty high, but I can't remember if it sold or not.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/CA9FE34CDE1544839F8A7A062875CCD3.jpg

Road Dog
03-02-2012, 07:15 AM
side

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/A3B0AF270FBD406ABFA3826406D052B6.jpg

Road Dog
03-02-2012, 07:17 AM
side

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/2D44825A0A1A492F8B018A5A9170771B.jpg

Road Dog
03-02-2012, 07:18 AM
another view

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/3C1D08F0EE7B407EAE34F042BD281749.jpg

Road Dog
03-02-2012, 07:19 AM
bott pic

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4010/F81A2B68B2054F509C87812070152032.jpg

RedGinger
03-02-2012, 11:18 PM
I love those bottles! It would be great to have a collection of them.

Road Dog
03-05-2012, 07:53 AM
They are nice.[:D] I've them in my collection a couple times over the years (small groups) , but they never became permanent. Even now I might have a couple on the shelf ? I'll have to look.

JOETHECROW
03-05-2012, 11:05 PM
I love these three...(Wish they were mine) [:)]

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/4459/5193B8EA470F412BA8E1DE40995016F3.jpg

RedGinger
03-05-2012, 11:45 PM
Those are gorgeous. Killer glass in that picture. I can see them sitting in an ancient New England house, through the wavy glass. It's almost making me think up a story, just looking at them.

Road Dog
03-06-2012, 07:16 AM
Look like some of Jerry's stuff. That Dalby's is most drool worthy.[:D]

eclipsepatent
03-13-2012, 03:18 PM
Hi all. Picked up this early pontilled almost clear glass Turlingtons just days ago which is very crude with a thin flared lip.This bottle was found near London at Rochester in Kent (England)under some floor boards in an old chemist shop.
Here's some pictures. Kindest regards Wayne Wood.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9484/041ypw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/041ypw.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/631/038lg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/038lg.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

surfaceone
03-13-2012, 04:53 PM
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9484/041ypw.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/631/038lg.jpg

Welcome Wayne,

Nice Turlington's, sir.

Here the business is of no use. You've got to use the your.jpg goes here method.

http://www.s9.com/images/portraits/30670_Turlington-Christy.jpg

Road Dog
03-14-2012, 06:30 PM
Awesome Turlington Wayne! Looks like a late 18th century type. Hows the embossing on the sides read? Welcome to the site.

JOETHECROW
03-14-2012, 11:17 PM
Hello Wayne, Welcome, and thanks for posting your Turlington's bottle...I'd love a chance to dig under that Chemist's shop!... [&:] Very nice bottle.

Steve/sewell
03-15-2012, 10:11 PM
ORIGINAL: eclipsepatent

Hi all. Picked up this early pontilled almost clear glass Turlingtons just days ago which is very crude with a thin flared lip.This bottle was found near London at Rochester in Kent (England)under some floor boards in an old chemist shop.
Here's some pictures. Kindest regards Wayne Wood.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9484/041ypw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/041ypw.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/631/038lg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/038lg.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Was the girl in the tight top under the floor boards too!! You need to get back in there Wayne and find the rest of her.Great bottle Wayne congratulations, the ultimate medicine.

web44ca
08-27-2018, 03:41 PM
This Turlington has no embossment on the sides and 1/2 embossed on the bottom.

Front/Back is embossed " TUR
LING
TONS
BALSAM "

The bottle stands 2 5/8", the diagonal mold seam stops on the shoulder.

I would appreciate any replies, in particular, comments that will ID it being American or English and age.184042184043184044

saratogadriver
08-30-2018, 08:55 AM
The base mark and fount for same strongly suggests to me English. it's a later turlingtons, as it's not pontiled. But I'm no expert in English bottles.

Jim G