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lacyc
12-02-2005, 01:18 AM
Im new to this and want to find out if there is a name for a style of bottle I have. It is similar to modern glass ketchup bottles. There is what I call 'panelling' all around the body of the bottle (starting below the shoulder.) Each panel is maybe and 3/4 inch or so wide, so there are many. The top of each panel is arched. Anyone know what this feature is called? Thanks.

GuntherHess
12-02-2005, 09:16 AM
sounds like a cathedral peppersauce

lacyc
12-02-2005, 09:51 PM
Well thanks but I dont think is is the Gothic style pepper sauce because the arches are not pointed and it has a long neck. Im thinking its an old Heinz ketchup bottle actually, any thoughts?

GuntherHess
12-03-2005, 01:07 AM
its just a shot in the dark without a photo...

capsoda
12-03-2005, 01:39 AM
Hi Lacy, There are an awful lot of different ketchup bottles out there. A few are Worth a little money But it realy is hard to tell without a pic.

lacyc
12-03-2005, 03:46 PM
Thanks everyone, but I dont care about value, at least monetary value. I am doing archaeological research that will contribute to our understanding of our past rather than just digging for bottles for selfish reasons... Its definately not worth any money and I wouldn't care if it was, Im just interested in finding out what it was used for. Again, I thank you for your help, I think I have enough info now.

trussin
12-04-2005, 12:39 PM
"It belongs in a museum"...oh to be young and idealistic again, jb in NJ. Today I am a capitalist. "We all become something we hate" J. Lennon...peace.

lacyc
12-04-2005, 04:05 PM
I understand your point trussin, however condescending it was. I am simply bothered by the assumption that the only reason for researching is to find out how much something is worth. No, I dont think it belongs in a museum, but I am idealistic I guess. Better to be that way than to be jaded or apathetic. Sorry to disagree with you.

Gunsmoke47
12-04-2005, 05:56 PM
Hey Lacy, understand that there are only a handful of us that have been active on this forum for over a 4 year period. There are a few archeologist, or archeoligical stewards on this forum. Most of the time, people find us (this forum) by a Google search and want to know if their 1930 screw top Listerene bottle is worth retiring on. This is the greatest wealth of information I have ever seen on bottles: collecting, pre or post 1900: value , scaricity...... or just, "What in the world is it?" from Austrailia to Mr. Clause's North Pole. Personally, I believe that every bottle found in tact pre 1900 deserves a place in a museum somewhere. The beauty about this forum is this: Most any active member that can help you will help you. I hope I have not overstepped my bounds, and I hope if you have any other questions about bottles, you will feel free to ask here. Kelley

bearswede
12-04-2005, 06:50 PM
Nicely put, Kelly...

Lacy...

As a former archeologist, I understand your aversion to setting monetary values on artifacts that have potential for advancing our knowledge of human behavior. However, in this case, I would argue that bottle collectors are doing the archeological record a service by preserving and publishing an enormous study collection that is available to all (vis-a-vie this forum and others). Most sites that would be germaine to understanding the historic archeological record would be yielding bottle shards rather than whole specimens. Comparing the shards to whole bottles and the histories of those bottles, generally compiled by the bottle collecting fraternity, provides id's, dates, etc. that can generate useful information about human consumption habits.

Please keep this in mind before you judge us too harshly...

Ron

trussin
12-04-2005, 07:36 PM
Hey Lacy, didnt mean to light a fire in your shorts. Just trying to make a joke thats all...Glad you came here. I think you will find more in common with the folks here than you think. Or may like. We live history here and not for a pay check. Please continue to use us as a resourse. For the record not all cathedral peppers have short necks or pointed arches. It is tough to tell with out a photo as stated earlier. Relax....Joe B in NJ

capsoda
12-04-2005, 10:26 PM
Sorry Everyone, Didn't mean to offend when I stated a possible value to the bottle. I have been digging bottles since I was 11 and I am now 50. I started digging them because they were cool and my parents loved to tell me about them. It still makes me feel good to show them what I dug up and they still love telling me about them. As far as selling bottles, yes I do. No one wants a collection of 165 identical bottles. When I was a younger man my brother and I would dig up bottles on construction sites and donate the majority of them to local museums along with cannon balls, a 1 ton pickup load of cannon balls at one time, and other relics. But thanks to the university archaeological departments, local historical societies and museum personnel, you can't see any of it because it is on loan to their personal collections. I once thought they were the personal caretakers of our heritage but some of them are just greedy thieves.
Most bottle diggers are very interested in the what and where of bottles. I've seen grown people put on like children at Christmas time over a particular bottle they just dug. I don't know of any diggers who have become wealthy digging bottles either. I have met archaeologists and historians that I deeply respect and I have met some who are in it for personal gain. The first three questions most bottle diggers/collecters ask about any given bottle is- whats it worth, how old is it and what was in it. We do it because we love it, it is a passion. We do it on land and under water, hot or cold, rain or shine, on hills, in holes, in trash pits and yes even in old out house holes. How much more passionate could a body get over something that someone else threw away. As I said we love it. I haven't been a member of this forum long but I have learned that it is a great source of information. You can get answers for a myriad of questions and quite a few laughs too. Just a bunch of folks who love bottles. As I said before Lacy, I didn't mean to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. I just dig digging. [8|]

ronvae
12-04-2005, 11:25 PM
Well said Warren! [sm=lol.gif]

southern Maine diver
12-05-2005, 12:53 AM
[8|]Hey Lacy,

I'm relatively new to the forum , but I can not get over the obvious "Nerve" that was hit in the previous exchange. I have been diving for more than 30 years and I have run into a number of people who have said that what we find underwater belongs to the state or to the town, city what have you. History... archeology...So, through some eyes, archeological endeavors are thought to be "ANTI"-bottle hunting/collecting.

I, as most of my bottle collecting friends do, appreciate the glass... the workmanship... the beauty... the history...the effort, the comradere, the excitement ... the wonder and the knowledge of hunting for... researching... displaying and collecting old/antique bottles!!!. Knowing that no one has touched that bottle for over a hundred years... The pure excitement... the joy of finding a beautiful piece of glass... WOW... it's unbelievable!!

And remember, these bottles were thrown away as "TRASH", discarded for what eve1r reason...

I don't endorce destroying or pillaging shipwrecks or archaeologicaly/historically significant sites, but I do take exception to "THOSE" who believe that all the things we find belong to the state, to the museum, to the town, to the city... to the university... to the research... to the people????

Come on... we put a lot of effort into the research of "Bottle Sites" .... the hard labor... the digging... the diving... the cleaning and preservation... the recovery ..... I can go on and on... If not for us, many of these sites would go unfound... unknown ...undiscovered... and unappreciated!!!

As my good friend, Rick, says..., Finders Keepers...
[sm=rolleyes.gif] Wayne

lacyc
12-06-2005, 01:43 AM
Wow, well first I want to apologize for being snippy. I certainly respect many of you for the knowledge and passion you have for bottles and/or other old artifacts (or whatever you wish to call them.) I dislike being patted on the head ( or if I perceive I am.) I guess I've been stressed lately althought I don't want to use that as an excuse if I've offended anyone. I only have a problem with treating bottles only as money makers, or digging them illegally. And I guess those people are everywhere, even in archaeology. My perspective is just this: as an archaeology student I have come across a few sites recently that, even though they are on federal lands, have been stripped by people who take stuff home and keep it there. It is great if they give newbies like me information that helps us be better archaeologists, but it would be nice to document it and make it (at least to some degree) available to anyone. Part of it is also the fact that I have the same passion as anyone who digs, be it a hobby, a job, or for academia. Being able to experience that joy of finding something is so rare anymore tho, due to some (not all) people digging illegally.
Lastly, I due appreciate the help/understanding I have received from members of this forum. Thank you so much, and I salute your passion.

stormysouth
12-06-2005, 11:50 AM
lacyc,

I haven't been a member long but I am a passionate digger from the time I was a little girl. I guess I have been digging about 30+ years. People who are into digging, diving, detecting, sifting, ect.... take it very seriously. When I go to get permission in my area I have a reference list of people who have given me permission to come on their property. They also have given me great information on where to search further and even made calls to people to help me get permission to search. Most of us care about the reputation we build for ourselves and others in our unique hobby (or is it obsession?). My son(12 yo) and daughter (16 yo) and I are creating a lifetime of memories for all of us to enjoy. I am teaching them the love of history, love of reading, how to do research, to truly love and appreciate our amazing country and what a privilage it is to be born here and also how to respect other people and their property. They are learning patience and any thing worth having is worth working for (it is not easy digging a dump). We research each thing we find if it's possible. We put a label on the bottom of each thing with the location and date. I am looking forward to 20 years from now when i'm a grandma and the grandbabies point out one of our treasures and say what's that nana? I can proudly take it down, show it to them and look at the label and say your daddy or your mommy and I found this...... We have been invited by the president of the local historical society to help put toether a glass/bottle display in an exhibition they are having next year. We will donate duplicates. I am trying to get the library to add a display permenantly and have offered to donate pieces as well as my time. I haven't sold any of the things we have found yet. I give them as gifts or trade. (Guess I haven't found the BIG BIG Money bottles) But even if I did sell some pieces it ensures that the small piece of history bought/sold has a greater chance of being preserved even if in a private collection. I would rather that it be found and preserved then it be lost and gone forever. I am not trying to lecture, just pass on how my family views our hobby.

Respectfully,

Lisa

Mainely Broken
12-06-2005, 08:05 PM
Stormy, I think you sumed it all up for all of us! Good job! I dig, I'm obesessed, I love to dig & research what I've found. I've never sold anything(still a newbie) but am more than willing to donate to the historical societies any duplicates I may find. I love to collect any bottle that has an unusual shape be it embossed or not. We are preserving history, like you said be it in our homes, historical society, museum, or private collections.

Lacyc, I speak for myself, you are forgiven for the assumption that we do this for money[:D] I wish! We are all archaeologist in our own ways. As long as we dig, history unfolds & is preserved.

Good luck in your digs & research,
Vicky

poisons4me
01-01-2006, 10:30 PM
The National Bottle Museum (non profit org.)has struggled for ever to keep location and pay the bills-why?because noone to date has bothered to consider bottles a important part of our history,as for careful digging as done in arch. is not an option in bottle sites. We have taken days of work off to go hurry through a large dig as quick as possible due to the dozers pushing them into mash and then again burying them. Now.....find an arrow head or cannon ball and they will put a ten story building on hold as long as needed,but bottles they are trash. Going back to the beginning of this great country and you will find the very first industry and one of the longest running was bottle making houses.It is not even mentioned in the majority of history books,so..if it was not for the thousands of us diggers and hoarders when people finally do see the importance of glass and what was involved in making that beuatiful 1 off hand tooled,hand blown bottle we will have lots of history for them to study and admire.Right now i still hear way to often"you collect empty old bottles you dig from the ground!!"on the other hand i have help start alot of young people in this very important hobby and will stop whatever im doing to answer questions like"how do the make it blue?"As for putting value on anything dug whether bottle or not is done for many very wise reasons such as insurance,hence museums pricing things like SUE the skeleton,i have to know how much everything i have is worth and yes its great to dig a great old bottle and research to find rarity.3 very hard to come by stoneware beer bottles i dug are in the national bottle museum due to their importance locally,no charge.Thats my personal opinion only and does not reflect this site or anyone attached.thanks very much.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5033/Tr51103.jpg

southern Maine diver
01-03-2006, 11:23 PM
Washingtonstatedigger...

Did you happen to catch this thread when it first came up a little over a month ago?

Wayne